Spacers for SCCA autox, front or all around?
02-05-2009, 01:37 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Spacers for SCCA autox, front or all around?
Allowance is 1/4" spacer on a stock spec wheel.
Do you guys who use them go just front or all corners?
I know a built wheel is better, but costs about 5k more.
C5z ss class.
If you have the time to post, or a link, what is the steering/setup engineering behind this.
My align is full/maxed autox.
Do you guys who use them go just front or all corners?
I know a built wheel is better, but costs about 5k more.
C5z ss class.
If you have the time to post, or a link, what is the steering/setup engineering behind this.
My align is full/maxed autox.
02-05-2009, 07:44 PM
#2
Team Owner
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I started running them on my vert because I was getting a lot of rub w/315's. The car was slammed too low for real track use. I carried them over to my Z just because replacing tires gets expensive quickly.
If you want to talk geometery, you get a wider track and I'd think the tire moves through a slightly larger arc as the suspension compresses. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, would you see a little more camber with the spacer if measured on the face of the wheel
If you want to talk geometery, you get a wider track and I'd think the tire moves through a slightly larger arc as the suspension compresses. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, would you see a little more camber with the spacer if measured on the face of the wheel
02-05-2009, 09:11 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
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Camber sets the angle at the hub. A spacer shouldn't change the angle but will push the tire out a little giving you a very, very, small change in ride height. But I'd venture a bet that you'd have a hard time measuring it.
If you should use spacers, and where, depends on what you're trying to accomplish. They will increase grip at the end of the car you put them on. So you can use them to adjust the balance of the car.
They also make the car wider so you'll hit more cones and have to travel a greater distance than someone who is not using them. Nothing is free in this sport.
Most of the national guys using stock wheels don't use them. The CCW guys usually have the fronts offset so the front track is wider and then split their opinions on the rears. Some want the rears to stick better, some want the rear to be looser to rotate around the cones and some even make the rear track narrower to avoid the many cones taken out by the rear tires.
So in summary, it just depends on what you are trying to accomplish with the spacers.
Are you going to nationals this year?
If you should use spacers, and where, depends on what you're trying to accomplish. They will increase grip at the end of the car you put them on. So you can use them to adjust the balance of the car.
They also make the car wider so you'll hit more cones and have to travel a greater distance than someone who is not using them. Nothing is free in this sport.
Most of the national guys using stock wheels don't use them. The CCW guys usually have the fronts offset so the front track is wider and then split their opinions on the rears. Some want the rears to stick better, some want the rear to be looser to rotate around the cones and some even make the rear track narrower to avoid the many cones taken out by the rear tires.
So in summary, it just depends on what you are trying to accomplish with the spacers.
Are you going to nationals this year?
02-05-2009, 10:09 PM
#4
Race Director
Thread Starter
Camber sets the angle at the hub. A spacer shouldn't change the angle but will push the tire out a little giving you a very, very, small change in ride height. But I'd venture a bet that you'd have a hard time measuring it.
If you should use spacers, and where, depends on what you're trying to accomplish. They will increase grip at the end of the car you put them on. So you can use them to adjust the balance of the car.
They also make the car wider so you'll hit more cones and have to travel a greater distance than someone who is not using them. Nothing is free in this sport.
Most of the national guys using stock wheels don't use them. The CCW guys usually have the fronts offset so the front track is wider and then split their opinions on the rears. Some want the rears to stick better, some want the rear to be looser to rotate around the cones and some even make the rear track narrower to avoid the many cones taken out by the rear tires.
So in summary, it just depends on what you are trying to accomplish with the spacers.
Are you going to nationals this year?
If you should use spacers, and where, depends on what you're trying to accomplish. They will increase grip at the end of the car you put them on. So you can use them to adjust the balance of the car.
They also make the car wider so you'll hit more cones and have to travel a greater distance than someone who is not using them. Nothing is free in this sport.
Most of the national guys using stock wheels don't use them. The CCW guys usually have the fronts offset so the front track is wider and then split their opinions on the rears. Some want the rears to stick better, some want the rear to be looser to rotate around the cones and some even make the rear track narrower to avoid the many cones taken out by the rear tires.
So in summary, it just depends on what you are trying to accomplish with the spacers.
Are you going to nationals this year?
Even if only for practice days.
In an effort to keep this sport affordable I DO get every last run out of my tires. I just corded some rear 345x17 tires with 140 runs on them at my last practice. Corded the middle, not edges so it's really too much tire (on my Grand Sport rims) but wears pretty well. Man it was loose. I softened the shocks & pressure & still got loose on dead straight sections in mid 2nd gear.
As for nats, I don't know about this year, but I am getting close to buying a trailer for the car for when I do the 200 mile RT to Fontana.
I have been driving the car on old dot R tires and I am tired of running up there with that disadvantage. Also I did cut down a tire (710) on road trash once.
Once I have a trailer it makes that whole national event a lot more likely.
Last edited by froggy47; 02-05-2009 at 10:15 PM.
02-05-2009, 10:34 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
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BTW, if you do run 0.25 inch spacers you'll probably want to put longer studs on the car, especially on the fronts. ARP studs are a good choice. If you don't put longer studs on then the threads will eventually pull off and you could lose a wheel while on course. FWIW
02-06-2009, 08:21 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
I tried them on the front using the 295 V710's and they caused rubbing on the outer lip on a C5Z.. Couldn't really notice an real advantage with or without them, so in order to keep the lip from getting worn off I stopped using them. Not really worth the trouble. I used the extra 1/4 inch of offset on the C4 and it was a real advantage, but on the C5 it didn't seem to make any difference...
02-06-2009, 08:29 PM
#7
Race Director
Thread Starter
I tried them on the front using the 295 V710's and they caused rubbing on the outer lip on a C5Z.. Couldn't really notice an real advantage with or without them, so in order to keep the lip from getting worn off I stopped using them. Not really worth the trouble. I used the extra 1/4 inch of offset on the C4 and it was a real advantage, but on the C5 it didn't seem to make any difference...
thanks
02-07-2009, 09:18 AM
#8
Melting Slicks
In an effort to keep this sport affordable I DO get every last run out of my tires. I just corded some rear 345x17 tires with 140 runs on them at my last practice. Man it was loose. I softened the shocks & pressure & still got loose on dead straight sections in mid 2nd gear.
While I am as cheap as anybody (and some of those who know me will say cheaper than most anybody), running tires that long isn't a good idea. First of all, the tuning goes off and you are chasing the setup, and chasing the setup on hard tires will just mess things up when you get the new tires back on. Secondly, you will get used to not having as much grip, and when you get real tires back on the car you will find that you won't be pushing it as hard as it can be, just because you aren't used to having that much grip.
I do tend to use old tires for the first part of a test and tune day, since you can get them hotter (where they do work ok) and you want to shake out the rust. It used to be that you could dope tires with Formula V and get a few more weekends out of them, but I didn't find V710's responded to doping as well as some other tires.
02-07-2009, 01:31 PM
#9
Race Director
Thread Starter
While I am as cheap as anybody (and some of those who know me will say cheaper than most anybody), running tires that long isn't a good idea. First of all, the tuning goes off and you are chasing the setup, and chasing the setup on hard tires will just mess things up when you get the new tires back on. Secondly, you will get used to not having as much grip, and when you get real tires back on the car you will find that you won't be pushing it as hard as it can be, just because you aren't used to having that much grip.
I do tend to use old tires for the first part of a test and tune day, since you can get them hotter (where they do work ok) and you want to shake out the rust. It used to be that you could dope tires with Formula V and get a few more weekends out of them, but I didn't find V710's responded to doping as well as some other tires.
I do tend to use old tires for the first part of a test and tune day, since you can get them hotter (where they do work ok) and you want to shake out the rust. It used to be that you could dope tires with Formula V and get a few more weekends out of them, but I didn't find V710's responded to doping as well as some other tires.
Sigh, all true.