errance

Can you please help me decide on seat rails for a 17" Kirkey Deluxe Road Racing aluminium seat? Car is a C6 daily driver that I take to HPDEs. Rest of the setup will most likely be Sharkbar, Teamtech RamPac and HANS.

I can't make up my mind between Hardbar and Pfadt:

Two vendors with a good reputation. Both in the $300 range.

Hardbar looks more beefy and maybe more adjustable. Pfadt looks like a more "polished", OE-like product, not something out of someone's garage - but less beefy.

Hardbar mounts the sub straps on the side rails, Pfadt has a center bar just for that.

Pfadt allows the use of sliders, but I may not be able to use them anyway since I'll have an IOPortRacing back brace.

Which would you chose and why?

trackboss

I guess I'll start. I have the hardbar mounts in my C5 with a 16" version of your seat. I am very pleased. As you pointed out, the hardbar mounts are very stout. They have tons adjustability. I played around with different mounting locations until I found what was best for me. One thing I did do is drill a row of holes above the ones that hardbar puts in there. Reason was because I mounted the rear of the seat directly to the rails(nice feature about that seat that cannot be done with others) and only used the upright brackets on the front to tilt the seat back. That did require me to make a 1/4" spacer for the rear to keep the rails parallel. Mounting the rear on the original holes places the seat just a bit too low, which on the corvette basically puts the driver uncomfortably on the floor and instead of the legs dropping a bit towards the pedals as in most cars they lay flat. I find that a bit uncomfortable.
I found that the factory belt works very well with my setup. Typically it is a bad idea to use a factory belt in a race seat with high sides because the lap belt leaves a gap between the driver's legs/torso, but unless one is super skinny that is not the case with the kirkey mentioned above. The latch goes on the outside, not through the hole. For the lap belts I attached eyelets to existing holes in the rails so I could snap in my harness when on track and quickly remove it not only to get it out of the way, but to adjust it when setting it up.
I highly recommend the teamtech jet pilot. There is no better harness. It is not only comfortable, but very supportive, and altough it is six point it only mounts at four so no need for a sub mounting point.
Lastly, once everything was where I wanted I built an aluminum seat back brace and attached it to the bulkhead behind the seat. It's not a good idea to run any seat without a back brace while using harnesses. Disregard any FIA ruling on composite seats. Its not safe.
Hope this helps. Good luck!

Wicked Weasel

My setup is kirkey deluxe and hardbar rails. I will post some pics later. The quality is top notch and hardbar gives you many options for fine tuning. I also trust gary@hardbar to incorporate everything you need in any of his product designs.

I am sure that pfadt also makes a decent product but when I was looking pfadt was not making parts for vettes.

Rob Willis

Kirkey Deluxe (16"s) and Hardbar rails here. Going to add an IO Port seat brace before the season starts.

Happy with my setup.

yakisoba

Hardbar rails and kirkey seat here, in a C5. I don't have enough room to leave the stock seatbelts in, because the seat is 17". Easy to get them in and out though.

Adam 17x

I have the same set-up as you, C6 daily driver with track day needs. I have a 17" Kirkey intermediate seat. I bought the Hardbar product first because it looked more robust. However, the 17" width seat will not fit down within the side rails of the Hardbar. I'm 6'4" and need the seat as low as possible for head room. Hardbar was very gracious and took the product back for a refund. The Pfadt product worked perfectly. It sits at the perfect height, just above the carpet (without having to cut carpeting or relocate wiring as with the Hardbar). Also, the Pfadt mount is much more robust than the website photos give it credit for. There is zero flex in the seat and mount combination. Also, the Pfadt is much more like a factory seat frame mount, making installation and removal much easier. With the Hardbar, you need to thread adapters into the floor stubs then the mount the rails. So to switch back to your stock seat requires the extra step of removing the adapters.

To sum up, if you are tall, you need the Pfadt mount with the 17" width. Otherwise, either will work. Don't pass up the Pfadt, however, because you think it is less robust. Also, the Pfadt uses the factory floor studs making switching back and forth a much quicker exercise. Lastly, the Hardbar rails lay right on your floor pan, meaning you may need to slit carpet and reroute wiring (major bummer and hassle). In short, I would get the Pfadt.

wtknght1

You simply will not find better workmanship than Gary Hoffman's (Hardbar) rails. He custom built a set for me that's slightly lighter than his regular version and he also white powder-coated it too to match the car...beautiful work Gary!!! It's ultra adjustable, strong and looks awesome. ...you da best! Thanks!!

Wicked Weasel

here are pics of my seats with hardbar

errance

Where do the sub belts attach on the hardbar photos above? I know the lap belts attach behind the seat itself at the rear of the rails, but unsure about the sub belts.

Wicked Weasel

my sub belts are mounted behind me and come up through the opening kirkey has in the seat.

C6RAPTOR

What seat are you using? I am looking for a head restraint/HANS compatable race seat for my C6. Do you have photos?

wtknght1

I use a Cobra Suzuka seat. Just about any good racing seat will have ample room for a head restraint system. Just find one that fits your hips well and is comfortable for you.

C6RAPTOR

Can you close the window with the Cobra seat? I tried two models of Cobra seats with Pfadt mounts a few years ago and they hit the side window. One of the Cobra seats was a Evolution S GT. I sent them back and now have John Caravaggio race seats but they are not real race seats.

tcmc5

I have some Hardbar mounts for sale w/ pic in race parts thread.
Asking $250 + shipping.

Bill Dearborn

I went with the Hardbar rails in my C5 when I installed my Ultrashield Deluxe seat. The provide a lot of adjustability which I needed as I have changed the seat position on the rails a couple of times to make it work best for me.

If you haven't purchased your seat yet I would make a suggestion. Try one before purchasing. I know this is difficult in a lot of cases but the biggest mistake I made when buying a seat was getting the wrong layback. I bought a 20 degree seat which works but I would have been better off with a 10 degree seat. I found the my legs were too flat with the 20 degree seat if I adjusted it so I didn't have so much layback. My current position is a compromise between the knees being too high above the seat bottom and the seat back a little to far back for me to have my arms in the proper driving position. Subsequently, I purchased a 10 degree seat for the passenger side and will be transfering it to the driver's side on my new car. I have a modified OEM seat track for the passenger side but if I had it to do over again I guess I would go with Hardbar on the driver's side and Pfadt on the passenger side. After I modified the stock seat track I ended up with something similar to Pfadt's slider but it cost me a lot more. I needed the stock style slider on the passenger side to clear the lateral G sensor which is mounted under the seat rail.

Bill

John Shiels

Hardbar

MYRX

I have the Pfadt seat rails. with a Sparco Evo 2+seat. Quality is great, rails were easy to install with a nice black paint finish. I use a 6 point harness. It's a module set-up where the seat can be exchanged between track days and street use with ease.

trackboss

I use a hans with no problem at all. See my earlier post above for seat details

errance

Hello,

I am the OP for this old thread. After much debating, I ended up purchasing the Hardbar rails for a couple reasons: they seem to be the most popular by far, and Dan from VetteWorks had them in stock locally when I picked up a Sharkbar from him.

After installing my Kirkey, using it for 1/2 dozen track days and then swapping my stock seat back in for around-town driving, I have mixed feelings about my Hardbar rails.

Pros:
- BEEFY. For real. These rails are probably stronger than anything else in that car.
- Tons of holes for adjustments. I need to incline my seat back more so this will come in handy.

Cons:
- requires adapters on the floor studs. For someone like me who takes his daily driver to the track, it makes swapping seats more complicated.
- the rails are flat, not arched. That wouldn't be a problem in a stripped race car, but my car has carpet and big wiring harnesses under the seat. To make the flat rails fit, we had to add a bunch of thick washers between them and the stud extenders. It was that or cut the carpet, and I don't want to cut the carpet of my car. I don't think the washers compromised the safety of the system significantly, but this is still not optimal. An arched rail like the stock ones or the Pfadt ones wouldn't have this problem.

In conclusion, the Hardbar rails are a great product. I'd get them with no hesitation for a race car. But I'm not sure it's the best for someone who wants to swap a race seat a few times a year into his daily driver. I may order the Pfadt to try them out after all and see if they make my life easier.

ssdeuce

Great thread!