CodeBlack

I just finished up at Watkins Glen with PDA. I was using Cobalt CSR pads with Coleman rotors. The pads (compound) came recommended to me by one of our vendors as being a good pad to use for track events. They suck! They must be good for a person that has never been on the track. I'm putting this thread out to let you, the forum members, know the real deal. Cobalt claims on their website that the pads have good initial bite, YEA, the first stop. Try putting some heat into them.

Knucklehead Racing

Wow. I am not familiar with their CSR (?) pad but I have raced with their XR1's and the XR2 which are incredible. Try them. I would not steer you wrong. They fill in the little hairline cracks you get on the rotors and make them last so much longer. And they really do bite right from the beginning. No bull. No bedding them in. Just go. Seriously.

Really sorry that you had what seems like a terrible experience with the CSR (?) pad but do not give up on the Cobalt.

Call them up. The company is first rate. Heck, the XR1 and 2 are used by the ALMS Corvette and Porsche's for years.

I bet they send you a free set to try since your experience with the other pads were so bad.

-Phil

John Shiels

**NEW FOR 2009** The new Cobalt Club Sport R compound sets new levels of performance for the competitive autocross and/or HPDE participant. As compared to competing products (as well as our own previous-generation GT-Sport) the Cobalt CSR compound provides a stronger initial bite, higher average torque and improved disc/pad wear. While the Cobalt CSR can be driven on the street to and from events, it is not designed as a replacement for OEM street pads.

Compound Characteristics
Meow-pad Temperature Range 50-1000°F (10-538°C)
Intial Bite/Attack Strong
Torque Level & Ramp Rate Medium + Medium Ramp
Modulation Excellent
Release Excellent
Consistency (across temp. range) Excellent
Consistency (throughout pad depth) Excellent
Pad Wear & Finish Excellent
Disc Wear & Finish Excellent



XR-1 Compound Characteristics
Man-Pad Temperature Range 100-1600°F (38-871°C)
Intial Bite/Attack Very Aggressive
Torque Level & Profile Very High + Fast Ramp
Modulation Very Good
Release Excellent
Consistency (across temp. range) Excellent
Consistency (throughout pad depth) Excellent
Pad Wear & Finish Very Good (no edge crumbling or chipping)
Pad Wear Rate-of-Change < 10.0%-ROC from New-to-End of Life
Disc Wear & Finish Excellent (no grooving or cupping)


you bought MEOW MEOW pads for a 505 HP car capable of 198 MPH How long did it take to get there and back? Your rotors probably look like new. Did you get going fast enough to get heat in the pads maybe they were cold?


What were you entering the bus stop at? Was Jackie Gleason there?


You need the right tool for the right job! I never saw a rotor friendly pad that stopped worth a dam. They are probably equal to a HAWK HPS or something which is a street pad. You now need to man up and get some real pads or a real brake system. Welcome to the world of good-bye dollars in HPDE's when you go faster. What did Kim say? Was he holding your hand?:o:o:o

How did your $$$$$ lap timer work out? GET A CAN OF WAX, SEE YOU AT THE SHOW!

Guess you are driving home at this very moment call me What did they cost? $1.99

So stop and tell me what else happen at the event!

Bill Dearborn

I have a set that I used last year at 4 Watkins Glen track events and they performed very well. This year while the rear pads were barely worn the front pads had about two track days left on them. Since I was going to be instructing for 4 days straight (including PDAs event) at the Glen I decided to go with some new HP+ since I didn't want to be changing pads in the garage. The HP+ didn't hold up as well as the CSR but did get the job done. The bright side is the HP+ are much cheaper, especially with the PDA Instructor discount.

The CSRs are a track Autocross Pad and not a full race pad so are in the same class as the HP+. Not sure how you were driving or what tires you had on the car but the CSR pads fit my driving style and work well with the EMTs and Nitto NT05s I have been using.

Bill

John Shiels

he runs R6 Hoosiers. may be he never took his foot off the brake?

Bill Dearborn

John,
When you get your hooks into somebody you don't let go. Jim47 and I were talking about that just yesterday. Hope things are going well for you. Miss seeing you at the track.

Bill

dvandentop

shoulda got xr1 or xr2 pads, you would not have been disappointed in those!

John Shiels

Steve & ME bust each others chops near daily on the phone and we both end up laughing our butts off. He was in tears laughing when I read what I wrote here to him on the phone. OR was he crying about the $550 for junk pads?

try to get it together soon and return. What speed does a stock C6Z pull with slicks at the Glen to the bus stop Bill?

Steve is out in his garage counting the chips in his black Z now. I know he has his shoes off by now, 21, 22, 23! He didn't tape it up he said this time!

May be I'll get Steve here this weekend to help me lift off the rear hatch and drop the lexan one on. It's a hobby abusing each other!

Bill Dearborn

Not sure what a stock one with slicks can do but it probably is pretty fast. It still depends on how fast the driver can get through Turn 2 and whether he can keep his foot to the floor through the esses. Last year after I got used to the car I was running 156 at the end of the straight with good old worn out GY EMTs on the car. With those tires I was running the Apex of Turn 2 at 105 and was pretty close to WOT all the way through 3 and WOT from 3 through 4 to the end of the straight.

This year with the Nittos I really had to hit the line into T2 perfectly to get close to 100 at the Apex. I couldn't hold nearly as close to WOT through 2 and 3 as I did with the EMTs. Top speed at the end of the back straight with them was in the high 140s with 150 showing on the HUD a couple of times.

With a tire that would allow you to hold the line through the esses at WOT top speed at the end of the back straight would probably be in the 160+ range. Of course the driver would have to brake a little sooner due to the higher speeds. It would be even harder on the brakes as well since he would have to drop about 70 to 75 mph just to turn into the bus stop.

With the Nittos I was into the ABS quite a bit over the last 4 days. Going into T1 I could definitely hear all 4 tires making little squeaks as the ABS worked each caliper. The entry into T8 with all the bumps really had the ABS working, with the car wanting to rotate counterclockwise if I tried to brake from any speed above 120.

Bill

John Shiels

only been there 2X on not great days weather wise but that is about how I would have guessed it Bill thanks for the info!

95jersey

Not to be confrontational, but if the CSR's are not in the same class as Hawk HP+, that is not saying much.

When using Hoosiers on a C6Z, I find you better be packing DTC70's, XP12's, Wilwood H's or better to keep up with the heat.

OCCOMSRAZOR

XR1 for front, XR2 for rear. Stop 1st time, every time.

LS3x416

I agree with the above statement. The Hawk HP+ worked fine in the Novice/Beginner Classes. But once you move up and find yourself moving faster around the course, you need a pad thats going to throw you from the seat. I found that in the DTC 70 pads. I run them both Front and Rear, with a set of Nitto 555R2s.

Pumba

To me it reads like your bitch should be with the vendor that recommended the CSR compound pads to you.

If you gave him an accurate depiction of how you were going to use the car, his recommendation was at fault.

John Shiels

that is why he got what he got! under 40 mph probably told the vendo he wanted 100,000 miles out of the rotors!

UstaB-GS549

Meow Pads & Man Pads....

that's got to be one of the funniest things I have read recently.

66L72

Curious to know what kind of life you achieve from your decent quality race pads at the Glen.

A bunch of us were there this week too, most of us for the first time. One fellow went through a complete set of CarboTech one piece in 7 sessions, one in rain. I went through 50% on the same pads. Both cases are left front.......didnt check the rest yet. Both of us on stock GY tires.
Glen seems to be harder on brakes than Mosport for sure. Although easier on the tires.

What a great track!!!

bowtiguy

XR-1 = for full on race tire (hoosier R6)

XR-2 = for HP street tires ( stock tires or toyo R88's)

CSR = autocross and level/group one intro HPDE's

I ran 1 piece CSR's on the street for 8 months and swapped out to my XR-2's for track days. I got AN ENTIRE SEASON out of my XR2/coleman rotor package and would have got more IF I would have had proper brake cooling.

How hard to I drive? plenty of 165-170 stops at Road America. I hit 145-150 at my local track for 30-40 minute sessions. 670+ hp will get you there but you have to stop once you get there.

BUT....

I got HUGE rotor wear running the CSR on the street. The holes in the pads build up with crud/brake dust and do not allow the pads pull off the rotors when the brake pedal is let up... I had to use a LARGE scrwew driver to pry them off. Not to mentio, they never really got up to temp which ( I believe) resulted in excelerated wear.

I think one of two things happened here.

1) you undersold your driving abilites when purchasing pads

2) you were looking for best of both worlds in a dual purpose track pad that stops AND you can get 30K miles out of. not going to happen.

Who was the Vendor? I think only two can sell Corvette specific direct replacement pads last I knew.

AU N EGL

3) undersold what car you had.

Autox or even agressive street pads ( ie <1000* ) shoud never be used on a race track.

Brake pads for a race track need that temp rating to 1600*

0Vector Vette

Cobalt Friction CSR compound is an autocross/introductory level hpde pad, it is not an all out race pad. For guys that are just getting started in hpde and are running on street tires, this pad is more then adequate. There are many out there who don't want to change pads at the track and therefore drive back and forth on these pads. For them, this is a great pad. However, as the drivers abilities grow and the demands on the braking system increase, this pad can easilly be overheated. Again, it is not a race pad. Once you get to that level, we recommend XR2 compound. Incredible initial torque, easy to modulate, lasts far longer then any comperable race pad, and is less abusive to your rotors. For those that are racing, we recomend XR1 compound. Even higher temperature rating, initial torque, and ramp. Doesn't last quite as long as XR2 and is a little harder on the rotors.

Steve (codeblack) is running our rotors, he already had the pads. Give us a call and we will get you in the right pads.

Robert Finlayson
Performance AFX Motorsports
815-254-2631