CL Brakes RC6 Review
05-18-2010, 11:03 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
CL Brakes RC6 Review
My Comparison of the CL RC6 vs Carbotech XP10/8.
As most of you know, CL Brake Pads (aka Carbone Lorraine) are now available in this country for our Corvettes. I recently purchased a set of their RC6 compound. Last year I used the Carbotech XP10/8 combo and I decided to do a back-to-back comparison between the two pads.
Background:
--------------
- Last weekend I did a two day event at Summit Point Shenandoah with TrackDaze.com. Running in the Advanced Group - 4-30min sessions per day.
- I have a C5 with stock LS6. Stock calipers, DRM/Quantum ducts, ATE fluid, SS lines. The tires I used were 275/35/18 Hoosier Koni Challenge scrubs all around
- On Saturday I used the Carbotechs. On Sunday the CLs. The Carbotechs are not new - they had several days on them. The CLs had one previous day on them.
- I used the same rotors each day (SP performance fronts, oem rears). The weather was sun and clouds, mid 70s and dry both days.
- Shenandoah is a slower, tighter track. It has 6 brake zones - all of which you can threshold brake (which I typically do)
- Although speeds are not high, the short straights and the number of braking zones don't leave much time for cooling
- I'm a typical DE'er. 3 years experience. Not the fastest, not looking to set records but still run hard enough to consistently be in the top 3rd or so of most advanced run groups
- I'd describe myself as fairly easy on brakes. I tend to brake hard and short and usually get a lot more usage out of pads and rotors than many of the members here seem to get.
Here are my thoughts:
---------------------
- I like both pads a lot. They both stop the car equally well and do not fade. I don't think my stopping distances varied from one pad to the other.
- They have a different feel. The CLs have more initial bite. For example - it takes less pedal pressure to activate the ABS with them.
- After using the Carbotechs for a year I can look back and say I've always thought they have a soft pedal feel. Keep in mind I have no issue with the way they work, its a feel thing, the pedal is just not real hard (due also to the stock brake system I know).
- By contrast, the CLs provide a firmer pedal. This was the thing I liked most about the CLs vs the CTs.
- The CarboTechs are fussy about bedding the pads - they don't like to mix compounds and need to be properly bedded to avoid juddering. They have a thick transfer layer.
- The CLs were really nice this way. Sunday morning, I installed the CL pads and took the car out on the road for a couple 45-55MPH stops and they scrapped the CT transfer layer right off and were good to go, no further bedding needed (not even sure that was needed).
- Neither pad has been particularly noisy for me, even on the street. IMO the street manners of both are just fine. I like their cold stopping power and I don't care about dust. Neither pad causes any rust spots on the rims when wet.
- Overall, at this point, I like the CL better because the firmer pedal feel and the ease of bedding. But, they are more expensive.
- So I'm not done collecting data - a big factor for me is the long term cost. I want to see how the CLs are on rotors and also how long they last. If they last longer than the Carbotechs, enough to make up for the price difference, then I've found my new pad.
- I have to say though, at some point I'd like to try the PFCs and see how they compare.
Hope this was helpful for some of you, Brad
As most of you know, CL Brake Pads (aka Carbone Lorraine) are now available in this country for our Corvettes. I recently purchased a set of their RC6 compound. Last year I used the Carbotech XP10/8 combo and I decided to do a back-to-back comparison between the two pads.
Background:
--------------
- Last weekend I did a two day event at Summit Point Shenandoah with TrackDaze.com. Running in the Advanced Group - 4-30min sessions per day.
- I have a C5 with stock LS6. Stock calipers, DRM/Quantum ducts, ATE fluid, SS lines. The tires I used were 275/35/18 Hoosier Koni Challenge scrubs all around
- On Saturday I used the Carbotechs. On Sunday the CLs. The Carbotechs are not new - they had several days on them. The CLs had one previous day on them.
- I used the same rotors each day (SP performance fronts, oem rears). The weather was sun and clouds, mid 70s and dry both days.
- Shenandoah is a slower, tighter track. It has 6 brake zones - all of which you can threshold brake (which I typically do)
- Although speeds are not high, the short straights and the number of braking zones don't leave much time for cooling
- I'm a typical DE'er. 3 years experience. Not the fastest, not looking to set records but still run hard enough to consistently be in the top 3rd or so of most advanced run groups
- I'd describe myself as fairly easy on brakes. I tend to brake hard and short and usually get a lot more usage out of pads and rotors than many of the members here seem to get.
Here are my thoughts:
---------------------
- I like both pads a lot. They both stop the car equally well and do not fade. I don't think my stopping distances varied from one pad to the other.
- They have a different feel. The CLs have more initial bite. For example - it takes less pedal pressure to activate the ABS with them.
- After using the Carbotechs for a year I can look back and say I've always thought they have a soft pedal feel. Keep in mind I have no issue with the way they work, its a feel thing, the pedal is just not real hard (due also to the stock brake system I know).
- By contrast, the CLs provide a firmer pedal. This was the thing I liked most about the CLs vs the CTs.
- The CarboTechs are fussy about bedding the pads - they don't like to mix compounds and need to be properly bedded to avoid juddering. They have a thick transfer layer.
- The CLs were really nice this way. Sunday morning, I installed the CL pads and took the car out on the road for a couple 45-55MPH stops and they scrapped the CT transfer layer right off and were good to go, no further bedding needed (not even sure that was needed).
- Neither pad has been particularly noisy for me, even on the street. IMO the street manners of both are just fine. I like their cold stopping power and I don't care about dust. Neither pad causes any rust spots on the rims when wet.
- Overall, at this point, I like the CL better because the firmer pedal feel and the ease of bedding. But, they are more expensive.
- So I'm not done collecting data - a big factor for me is the long term cost. I want to see how the CLs are on rotors and also how long they last. If they last longer than the Carbotechs, enough to make up for the price difference, then I've found my new pad.
- I have to say though, at some point I'd like to try the PFCs and see how they compare.
Hope this was helpful for some of you, Brad
05-18-2010, 05:50 PM
#3
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CL rc6 review
After running numerous pad compounds 5 of us have been running PFC 01 because of there long wear and performance properties, making them cost effective
I just tested the CL RC6 for a comparison
We used 2 2008 zo6 both stock with Stoptech st 60 and st 40, quantum brake ducts, ccw 18x11 and 18x13 with MPSC. We ran at Buttonwillow track 1 cw 170 + track miles for the day running from 30 to 45 minute sessions. We wanted to compare PFC 01 to the CL rc6.
Both pads are similar with quick initial bite. I liked the cl pads firm feeling and how they performed under repeated hard braking with a consistent smooth release .Both pads worked well with the stock ABS. I was running with a GT3 and was able out brake him.The cl pads appear to be rotor friendly. I did not experience any fade or soft pedal all day. My car felt more stable under heavy braking with the CL pads verses the PFC
Results.01 Pad wear fronts slightly more than 2MM even pad, no taper.
CL6 Pad wear fronts 3MM even pad wear, no taper
The rear pads used less than 1 MM both cars
We both drive similar and our pads wear has always been close. I did
push the brakes extremely hard so that might account for more wear.
Both pads are excellent pads and you would not be disappointed. I also had a passenger who only uses 01 pads with his Brembos. He was impressed and wanted to try a set But they are not yet available.
I will be ordering more CL fronts this week. The real savings will be if I
can get longer rotor life with the cl pads. I should know by the end of the summer
I just tested the CL RC6 for a comparison
We used 2 2008 zo6 both stock with Stoptech st 60 and st 40, quantum brake ducts, ccw 18x11 and 18x13 with MPSC. We ran at Buttonwillow track 1 cw 170 + track miles for the day running from 30 to 45 minute sessions. We wanted to compare PFC 01 to the CL rc6.
Both pads are similar with quick initial bite. I liked the cl pads firm feeling and how they performed under repeated hard braking with a consistent smooth release .Both pads worked well with the stock ABS. I was running with a GT3 and was able out brake him.The cl pads appear to be rotor friendly. I did not experience any fade or soft pedal all day. My car felt more stable under heavy braking with the CL pads verses the PFC
Results.01 Pad wear fronts slightly more than 2MM even pad, no taper.
CL6 Pad wear fronts 3MM even pad wear, no taper
The rear pads used less than 1 MM both cars
We both drive similar and our pads wear has always been close. I did
push the brakes extremely hard so that might account for more wear.
Both pads are excellent pads and you would not be disappointed. I also had a passenger who only uses 01 pads with his Brembos. He was impressed and wanted to try a set But they are not yet available.
I will be ordering more CL fronts this week. The real savings will be if I
can get longer rotor life with the cl pads. I should know by the end of the summer
Last edited by 911; 05-18-2010 at 11:09 PM. Reason: add photo
05-19-2010, 08:16 AM
#6
Hi Guys,
Thank you very much for the detailed feedback on those RC6's.
I'm glad the outcome was favorable for both of you vs. some of the established leaders in the market. I've had a few naysayers try to discredit these pads without any firsthand knowledge, but in all cases the sintered technology has proven itself when they actually get used like our typical customer uses them. They're easy to use, and they get the job done.
As RX-Ben said, anyone considering the RC6 can also consider the RC6E if they're really after the longest wear possible.
Last C5,
My company, Essex Parts Services is the exclusive importer and distributor of these pads in North American. We are also a forum sponsor. You can read all about CL pads here.
Thank you very much for the detailed feedback on those RC6's.
I'm glad the outcome was favorable for both of you vs. some of the established leaders in the market. I've had a few naysayers try to discredit these pads without any firsthand knowledge, but in all cases the sintered technology has proven itself when they actually get used like our typical customer uses them. They're easy to use, and they get the job done.
You may also consider the RC6e pads if you want something to last longer.
Where are you guys buying these CL pads???
My company, Essex Parts Services is the exclusive importer and distributor of these pads in North American. We are also a forum sponsor. You can read all about CL pads here.
05-20-2010, 09:56 PM
#7
Safety Car
i ran the shenandoah the same weekend.. i was in the yellow advanced group, apparently they put me in the "noob" advanced group because i've only ran the shenandoah once, go figure.
on sat i ran ct 8/8 on stoptechs and was looking for better braking.. i was activating abs but the pedal didnt feel particularly firm.. as if i should have been braking with less force. it was hard to judge.
on sun i swapped the fronts to xp10 compound. they felt a bit better than the xp8 but the difference was pretty negligible. i'd love to try the cl pads... so as soon as i find a job i'll buy some lol
on sat i ran ct 8/8 on stoptechs and was looking for better braking.. i was activating abs but the pedal didnt feel particularly firm.. as if i should have been braking with less force. it was hard to judge.
on sun i swapped the fronts to xp10 compound. they felt a bit better than the xp8 but the difference was pretty negligible. i'd love to try the cl pads... so as soon as i find a job i'll buy some lol
06-29-2010, 10:42 AM
#8
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
UPDATE on Usage of RC 6 Compound:
See my original post on 5/18 regarding the CL RC6 brake pads. The fronts are now ready to retire. Here are my updated thoughts:
- I got a total of 5 track days out of the front pads
- 2 days at Shenandoah
- 1 day on Pocono Long course -includes NASCAR turn 1 and front straight w/very hard brake zone into infield
- 2 days at NJMP Thunderbolt
- All days were dry with 4 sessions of 25-30 min. Running in the advanced group.
- The pad thickness new was .320". After the above events they now average .130"
- I measured top and bottom thickness of each front pad, ranged from .165 to .110
- I did rotate pads after each day and that worked to minimize taper
- The rear pads are still good, I did not measure them
- All sessions were on R compounds with OEM brakes
The pads continued to stop the car just fine but the peddle was getting awfully long on days 5 and 6. Never felt any judder, they behaved very well. I don't drive the car too much on the street, mostly just driving to track events. I left the pads in the whole time. During street driving, because the pads are cold, they quickly scraped off the transfer layer and then were a bit noisy - not so much squeal but more a sound like metal on metal. As far as I can tell they did not damage my discs any.
I still like the pads, I think they work very well but I was hoping for a little more longevity. Last year I used XP10/8 combo and as far as I can recall got approx the same usage, perhaps a day more. I should also point out that I am far more comfortable in the car this year (thanks to Phoenix Performance alignment) and probably carrying a bit more speed. I may try the CL RC6E compound next - still looking for better longevity and the RC6E is their endurance compound. If I do, I'll post up the results.
Cheers, Brad
See my original post on 5/18 regarding the CL RC6 brake pads. The fronts are now ready to retire. Here are my updated thoughts:
- I got a total of 5 track days out of the front pads
- 2 days at Shenandoah
- 1 day on Pocono Long course -includes NASCAR turn 1 and front straight w/very hard brake zone into infield
- 2 days at NJMP Thunderbolt
- All days were dry with 4 sessions of 25-30 min. Running in the advanced group.
- The pad thickness new was .320". After the above events they now average .130"
- I measured top and bottom thickness of each front pad, ranged from .165 to .110
- I did rotate pads after each day and that worked to minimize taper
- The rear pads are still good, I did not measure them
- All sessions were on R compounds with OEM brakes
The pads continued to stop the car just fine but the peddle was getting awfully long on days 5 and 6. Never felt any judder, they behaved very well. I don't drive the car too much on the street, mostly just driving to track events. I left the pads in the whole time. During street driving, because the pads are cold, they quickly scraped off the transfer layer and then were a bit noisy - not so much squeal but more a sound like metal on metal. As far as I can tell they did not damage my discs any.
I still like the pads, I think they work very well but I was hoping for a little more longevity. Last year I used XP10/8 combo and as far as I can recall got approx the same usage, perhaps a day more. I should also point out that I am far more comfortable in the car this year (thanks to Phoenix Performance alignment) and probably carrying a bit more speed. I may try the CL RC6E compound next - still looking for better longevity and the RC6E is their endurance compound. If I do, I'll post up the results.
Cheers, Brad
06-30-2010, 03:24 PM
#9
Supporting Vendor
Member Since: Oct 2002
Location: Cleveland OH
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St. Jude Donor '11,'13
UPDATE on Usage of RC 6 Compound:
See my original post on 5/18 regarding the CL RC6 brake pads. The fronts are now ready to retire. Here are my updated thoughts:
- I got a total of 5 track days out of the front pads
- 2 days at Shenandoah
- 1 day on Pocono Long course -includes NASCAR turn 1 and front straight w/very hard brake zone into infield
- 2 days at NJMP Thunderbolt
- All days were dry with 4 sessions of 25-30 min. Running in the advanced group.
- The pad thickness new was .320". After the above events they now average .130"
- I measured top and bottom thickness of each front pad, ranged from .165 to .110
- I did rotate pads after each day and that worked to minimize taper
- The rear pads are still good, I did not measure them
- All sessions were on R compounds with OEM brakes
The pads continued to stop the car just fine but the peddle was getting awfully long on days 5 and 6. Never felt any judder, they behaved very well. I don't drive the car too much on the street, mostly just driving to track events. I left the pads in the whole time. During street driving, because the pads are cold, they quickly scraped off the transfer layer and then were a bit noisy - not so much squeal but more a sound like metal on metal. As far as I can tell they did not damage my discs any.
I still like the pads, I think they work very well but I was hoping for a little more longevity. Last year I used XP10/8 combo and as far as I can recall got approx the same usage, perhaps a day more. I should also point out that I am far more comfortable in the car this year (thanks to Phoenix Performance alignment) and probably carrying a bit more speed. I may try the CL RC6E compound next - still looking for better longevity and the RC6E is their endurance compound. If I do, I'll post up the results.
Cheers, Brad
See my original post on 5/18 regarding the CL RC6 brake pads. The fronts are now ready to retire. Here are my updated thoughts:
- I got a total of 5 track days out of the front pads
- 2 days at Shenandoah
- 1 day on Pocono Long course -includes NASCAR turn 1 and front straight w/very hard brake zone into infield
- 2 days at NJMP Thunderbolt
- All days were dry with 4 sessions of 25-30 min. Running in the advanced group.
- The pad thickness new was .320". After the above events they now average .130"
- I measured top and bottom thickness of each front pad, ranged from .165 to .110
- I did rotate pads after each day and that worked to minimize taper
- The rear pads are still good, I did not measure them
- All sessions were on R compounds with OEM brakes
The pads continued to stop the car just fine but the peddle was getting awfully long on days 5 and 6. Never felt any judder, they behaved very well. I don't drive the car too much on the street, mostly just driving to track events. I left the pads in the whole time. During street driving, because the pads are cold, they quickly scraped off the transfer layer and then were a bit noisy - not so much squeal but more a sound like metal on metal. As far as I can tell they did not damage my discs any.
I still like the pads, I think they work very well but I was hoping for a little more longevity. Last year I used XP10/8 combo and as far as I can recall got approx the same usage, perhaps a day more. I should also point out that I am far more comfortable in the car this year (thanks to Phoenix Performance alignment) and probably carrying a bit more speed. I may try the CL RC6E compound next - still looking for better longevity and the RC6E is their endurance compound. If I do, I'll post up the results.
Cheers, Brad
06-30-2010, 03:34 PM
#10
Supporting Vendor
Give us a call we have a new endurance compound called the RP2
Again, thanks for the detailed feedback Argonaut. Seriously, I think you will find that the RC6E has the extended wear you're looking for. As an added bonus, it also makes less noise.
Last edited by JRitt@essex; 06-30-2010 at 03:36 PM.
06-30-2010, 05:13 PM
#12
Instructor
Member Since: Aug 2008
Location: Winterville GA
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I recently installed the RC6E pads on the front and RC5 on the rear of my C5 Z06. Did two track days at Road Atlanta a couple of weeks ago. I like the pads a lot. Not much noise, easy to bed, good initial bite. In my opinion a great set of pads if you drive to and from the track.
09-23-2010, 12:24 PM
#13
Melting Slicks
Any more feedback with the RC6 pads? I have a set I'm planning on installing once my pfc-01's wear out, which is very soon. Is anybody mixing pads front to rear such as RC6 in front and pfc-01's in back? The reason I ask is because my rear 01's are still in great shape but my fronts are almost gone. Thanks.
09-23-2010, 03:40 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
09-26-2010, 11:26 PM
#16
Melting Slicks
Very happy with these pads. I ran them in the corvette challenge at Buttonwillow this weekend and I have never had such a high and consistent pedal all day. I'm sure my new SKF hubs didn't hurt either. I also like the predictable and consistent stopping. I'll be back for more.
Bill.
Bill.
04-27-2011, 10:40 PM
#17
Drifting
I was also thinking of trying a set of these on my 07 Z, of all the pads I have tried to date I just love the Hawk DTC 70 pads on my last four Vettes. I run the 07 Z alot and hard on the road course and really dont have any complaints about them. If something works as good and lasts longer and my rotors last longer I would be willing to try them out.
Do they make the fronts in a one piece style for the C6 Z06 like Carbotech and Hawk do?
Do they make the fronts in a one piece style for the C6 Z06 like Carbotech and Hawk do?
05-01-2011, 09:00 PM
#19
Any chance we'll see a 6e that fits the Brembo GT 6-pots? I'm currently running 6 on the front and 6e in the rear and am really happy with them but anything that helps the fronts last longer would be great. I used to swap pads and rotors to go from track to street but I just leave these in.
They do have a lot of initial bite which is great on the track but requires some care on the street. I once came over a hill and saw a state trooper running radar. I tried to just tap the brakes to scrub off the little speed but with that bite I think the trooped thought I slammed on the brakes - unfortunatley that got his attention
.
They do have a lot of initial bite which is great on the track but requires some care on the street. I once came over a hill and saw a state trooper running radar. I tried to just tap the brakes to scrub off the little speed but with that bite I think the trooped thought I slammed on the brakes - unfortunatley that got his attention
.
