Cap'n Pete

Hey guys, I'm currently a Camaro guy, but hoping soon to jump into a C5 coupe as a dedicated track car. I've only had one chance to drive a C5 at the track, and I was immediately SOLD!

Due to the solid axle of the Camaro(s) (I've got an '02 Z28 daily driver / track car, and a '93 Z28 dedicated track car), they are very prone to rear-wheel lock-up and wheel-hop under heavy braking, especially when there's any uneven surface or bumps in the braking zone. The only way I've been able to compensate is by running more aggressive pads in the front (Hawk Blues or HT14's), and STREET pads in the rear (it helps, but still not 100%).

From what I could tell when I drove the C5 (which was actually still on street pads all-around), it didn't seem to get upset when I stood on the brakes, even through a rough braking zone.

Now, I've searched through quite a few pages (and based on some recommendations) am looking at Carbotechs, and have read that the XP12(F) / XP10(R) combo is a common setup. I don't even care so much which BRAND of pad I run, but do you guys find that the closely matched F/R pads are a good compliment for each other? Do the 'Vettes suffer any/much wheel-hop under heavy braking?? Would there be any justification to run XP12 / XP8 instead, or can the rears handle the more aggressive XP10's without issue?

Again, I haven't got the car YET, but hoping in the next ~couple months or so (if all goes well!).

I'm just trying to do some "homework" ahead of time.

Thanks for any/all comments/advice!

Jason

We've been seeing pretty good padlife/rotor life/performance from 12/10.

beerkat

Some people like the 10f/8r setup I think that has to do with what type tire you are running. The 12 can over power some tires.


From what little I know most people run a more aggressive pad on front and step the rear down one regardless of brand.

Cap'n Pete

I'd be running an R-comp tire like a Nitto NT-01 or Toyo RA1 as a minimum, but quite possibly Hoosier R6's (I've run both RA1's and R6's on my Camaro thus far). So, I'm looking for a lot of grip!

Thanks for the feedback thus far.

Again, I'm curious if anybody has experienced any brake hop at all, having "too much" rear bias? It's a huge problem for the Camaros (but I'm hoping that's not the case with the C5?).

Cap'n Pete

Anybody else with some insight on this? Thx.

VetteDrmr

I've never had many issues with rear wheel hop under braking, either autocross or on track. I'm actually running the same compound front and rear, but I'm also running a DRM brake bias spring, which biases slightly more to the rear wheels. Note that newer C5s ('02+?) use an electronic brake bias system that isn't compatible with the DRM spring.

I've been running Toyo RA-1s and Hoosier Rs (not As), on a stock Z51 suspension (well, upgraded to '04 Z06 shocks), so hopefully this'll be pertinent to you.

Welcome to the family!

Mike

J Ritt

Cap'n Pete,
I've sold many, many sets of race pads to vette customers over the years. Most customers seem to prefer a slightly more aggressive pad in the front...but nothing to the extent of what you're doing on your camaro with a street pad out back. I've personally run the same compound front/rear on my C5Z06 a number of times and tend to prefer it.

You may want to go the first route to start though...do a slightly more aggressive race pad in the front. Based on what you've said, it will likely feel a lot more balanced than what you are used to currently. If you decide you want to try a little more rear brake bias on your next set of pads, then switch to the same compound in the rear. ]

Depending on driving style, how they trail brake, etc., some people like a little more rear bias. The more rear brake you have however, the more unstable the car can potentially become in the brake zone. Therefore, I think a staggered setup is probably the logical/safe route to introduce yourself to the car, based on what you're used to now.

Also, my company just released a new brand of pad into the market, CL Brakes sintered racing pads. We've had a few forum members try them and really like them. They're really doing well in some other markets. You can see a few vette customer comments here:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...c6-review.html

Here is some feedback on other platforms, including comparisons to Carbotech, Hawk, PFC, and others: http://www.essexparts.com/brake-pads...s/cl-customers

You can read all about the pads and sintered technology here:
http://www.essexparts.com/brake-pads/cl-brakes

Shoot me a PM if you have any other questions when the time comes, and good luck finding the car you're after.

brkntrxn

Capt Pete,

I know exactly what you are talking about on your Camaro as far as rear axle hop under braking. As you said, it is a common issue with that platform. I also experienced it years ago with my Fox body and more recently with a 72 LTD Chump Car race car (LOL).

On my 99 Cobra which has in IRS, I needed more rear bias so I often ran a matched pair front to rear (Carbotech XP10/10) in order to aid trail braking and turn in. I needed to get the car to rotate.

However, on my C5Z06, I am running a Carbotech XP12/10 setup and am perfectly happy with stability under braking, performance, rotor friendliness, etc. If you are going with R-comps, go with 12/10s. If you happen to go with street tires, go with 10/8s.


-Kevin

davidfarmer

Although I've done it in a jam, pad compound is not the best way to correct bias issues. Any pad is capable of locking the tires, it's all about pedal effort and temperature range. The reason you run a cooler pad in the back is because they simply don't get hot enough to need the hotter pad.

To the topic at hand, these cars are well biased from the factory, and unless you put a mismatched caliper on it (like you find a set of random Brembos on ebay that weren't actually matched to your piston sizing), you should not have any problems. Also, the 4-wheel ABS helps a ton over the solid-axle F-body setup.

SIK02SS

It's night and day difference between tracking the Camaro vs Corvette!

I used to run on XP12/10 and really liked it, but have since moved to a more aggressive pad that fits my driving (braking) style better. I think for 90% of HPDE'ers who run "hard" the 12/10 combo is the best choice. If you're racing W2W though, it's my preference for something more aggressive with the added speeds and temperatures

Cap'n Pete

Awesome feedback, guys! That really does help, and gives me more peace of mind that the car can handle better brakes in the back than I'm used to, without making the car a handful to drive.

I literally only drove 8 laps in a buddy's street-stock C5 ('98), with a set of Hoosier R6's being the ONLY "mod", and I was blown away by the car. Compared to either of my Camaros, it was way more balanced, compliant, and forgiving. I really noticed how well the car behaved through a notoriously "bumpy" braking zone that usually upsets the Camaro every time around.

Really looking forward to getting one for myself .

Thanks again, guys ... very helpful info .

Armycop

Compared to either of my Camaros, it was way more balanced, compliant, and forgiving. I really noticed how well the car behaved through a notoriously "bumpy" braking zone that usually upsets the Camaro every time around.

That's because you're hauling around 600+ more pounds! As a former F-body owner (two to be exact) even g2 coilovers and Bilsteins couldn't cure the body roll and and axle hop. You'll feel some body roll with a 'vette on comp. tires, but a set of Z06 swaybars and good shocks will get rid of that easily. Welcome to the sickness

argonaut

I started out doing HPDEs in an 07 Mustang with the stick axle. While its probably better than the older F bodies, it did have considerable rear end hop in hard, fast breaking zones. The C5 has nothing like that, sure the rear will wiggle a bit sometimes but its never disconcerting.

When you do get a C5 I'd recommend you get it aligned by a shop or individual that knows what they are doing. It really makes a huge difference. Last year I tried to do it myself and ended up with a tail happy car that I liked a lot but was never really comfortable in. This year I got it aligned by Phoenix Performance and wow, what a difference. I had the car way to low and some of my other settings weren't so good. Now the car is much more balanced.

SIK02SS

Corvette brakes do have what they call ICE Mode. Basically you have no brakes because the sensors think you have no traction and the computer over rides your input (from my understanding). This is very rare, but has happened to people. Read this thread for more info: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...ake-issue.html

Cap'n Pete

My '02 street car weighed in at 3475 lbs, but my '93 "race car" weighed only 3038 lbs , so it's not just the weight difference, but the overall balance, and again, back to the crappy solid axle setup.

That's what I'm hoping for. I've lost count of the number of corners I've nearly blown because the rears lock up (because it's also a hit-and-miss type "syndrome" ... you're never quite sure when it's going to happen or not).

Fortunately, one of our series sponsors is a fellow racer who owns an alignment shop, and setting up race cars is pretty much "what he does" . He's a an hour or two away, but apparently well worth the drive .

As far as I know, the '02 Camaro has the exact same thing built into the ABS system, and I've been deep into ABS mode a couple times :o ... I do prefer having ABS on the track vs. not (my '93 has had the ABS removed) since it helps prevent flat-spotting the tires, BUT, it's not nice when you lose the pedal feel (basically, it goes rock hard, so you have to let off to re-gain controlled pressure).

Thanks! I agree, it is like a downward spiraling sickness ... the only cure being more racing, more mods, and more banter about everything from car prep to exactly how to take such'n'such a corner!