Help with Road Atlanta
06-07-2010, 06:42 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Help with Road Atlanta
Just got done with PCA at Road Atlanta and was taught a different line through 3 and 5, and now I am all confused 
.
My most recent instructor had me moving way right before turning into 2 earlier and aiming for the apex at 3 while braking and then clipping the curb. Previously I was taught to turn into 2 later and head towards the left side rumble strip(parallel) while braking and then cut across 3.
For 5 I was previously taught to brake earlier before the rumble strips on the right then move over after braking and downshifting before making the turn in. This time I was taught to move parallel to the rumble strips on the right while braking and shifting later right before turn in.
I have been signed off solo for PCA, Chin and NASA, but I need to know which line to use the next time I go to try to get some consistency. Video is below - you can ignore the extras, trying to lure some friends to the track.
http://vimeo.com/12375620
.My most recent instructor had me moving way right before turning into 2 earlier and aiming for the apex at 3 while braking and then clipping the curb. Previously I was taught to turn into 2 later and head towards the left side rumble strip(parallel) while braking and then cut across 3.
For 5 I was previously taught to brake earlier before the rumble strips on the right then move over after braking and downshifting before making the turn in. This time I was taught to move parallel to the rumble strips on the right while braking and shifting later right before turn in.
I have been signed off solo for PCA, Chin and NASA, but I need to know which line to use the next time I go to try to get some consistency. Video is below - you can ignore the extras, trying to lure some friends to the track.
http://vimeo.com/12375620
06-07-2010, 08:35 PM
#4
Pro
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That does seem pretty far to the right entering 2. That line will really compromise your speed through 1 to gain very little in 3. 3 is not a fast corner so 1 takes priority. What was your instructor driving? A low HP car may not need to lift in 1 take be that far right and set up to keep momentum in 3. The rumble strips to the left at the exit of 1 are there for your tires to be firmly planted on. IMHO
Not sure on 5 as it seems the instructor says, "you missed it" each of the 3 times in your video. The best advice I can give there is to keep your eyes way ahead and don't hit the curb at exit until your very comfortable with your car control. Too much curb there and you will hit something hard. When you get it down, put all 4 on the curb and jump off the end.
Keeping your eyes way ahead is almost always the answer to any dilemma on the correct line. For example, in your video at 1:25 you should be looking at the apex of 5. At 1:29 you should be looking at track out. At 1:32 you should be looking down the straight to the braking zone for 6 (even though you can't see it through the hill). I stopped telling my students when to turn and tell them where to look. They turn in right on instinct when they are looking to the right spots.
Not sure on 5 as it seems the instructor says, "you missed it" each of the 3 times in your video. The best advice I can give there is to keep your eyes way ahead and don't hit the curb at exit until your very comfortable with your car control. Too much curb there and you will hit something hard. When you get it down, put all 4 on the curb and jump off the end.
Keeping your eyes way ahead is almost always the answer to any dilemma on the correct line. For example, in your video at 1:25 you should be looking at the apex of 5. At 1:29 you should be looking at track out. At 1:32 you should be looking down the straight to the braking zone for 6 (even though you can't see it through the hill). I stopped telling my students when to turn and tell them where to look. They turn in right on instinct when they are looking to the right spots.
06-07-2010, 08:47 PM
#5
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Hard to gauge on street tires, but:
More curb at the apex of 3, more curb on exit of 5, more curb on 10a.
You still had room to track out at the exit of 3, tons of room on 5, and coulda released the brakes and turned in earlier carrying more speed into 10a. But you might not want to pound on your street car for 20min like we do for 1 banzai lap.
More curb at the apex of 3, more curb on exit of 5, more curb on 10a.
You still had room to track out at the exit of 3, tons of room on 5, and coulda released the brakes and turned in earlier carrying more speed into 10a. But you might not want to pound on your street car for 20min like we do for 1 banzai lap.
06-07-2010, 09:00 PM
#6
Race Director
I like this line:
"Previously I was taught to turn into 2 later and head towards the left side rumble strip(parallel) while braking and then cut across 3."
"Previously I was taught to turn into 2 later and head towards the left side rumble strip(parallel) while braking and then cut across 3."
06-07-2010, 09:03 PM
#7
Race Director
I like this line:
"Previously I was taught to turn into 2 later and head towards the left side rumble strip(parallel) while braking and then cut across 3."
i'll try it your other way end of July and let ya know what i think.
"Previously I was taught to turn into 2 later and head towards the left side rumble strip(parallel) while braking and then cut across 3."
i'll try it your other way end of July and let ya know what i think.
06-07-2010, 09:10 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
Hard to gauge on street tires, but:
More curb at the apex of 3, more curb on exit of 5, more curb on 10a.
You still had room to track out at the exit of 3, tons of room on 5, and coulda released the brakes and turned in earlier carrying more speed into 10a. But you might not want to pound on your street car for 20min like we do for 1 banzai lap.
More curb at the apex of 3, more curb on exit of 5, more curb on 10a.
You still had room to track out at the exit of 3, tons of room on 5, and coulda released the brakes and turned in earlier carrying more speed into 10a. But you might not want to pound on your street car for 20min like we do for 1 banzai lap.
06-08-2010, 12:01 AM
#10
Le Mans Master
Sure the line wasn't exactly perfect in a few areas, but that's no big deal. You'll find the line you're most comfortable with and build on it. What I picked up on most was your verbal cues. It seemed to me like you just weren't relaxed and were beating yourself up. I heard you say several times to your instructor that you "missed" it. It's good that you recognized it, but you shouldn't harp on it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe you are 'pointing' the car rather than being free with it (if that makes sense). I would have liked to see some in car video to watch your hands. Do you tend to grip the wheel really hard or are you feeling the car through it? You gotta figure out how to be relaxed and yet be focused enough to hit the right marks without having to think about it. There are so many other things about this hobby than driving the perfect line. Sure it's important for a lot of reasons, but what are you gonna do when you get off line with just a little too much speed? You have to understand your car and be able to make the neccessary inputs when you need to. Barrelling down the hill through T12 way too hot at RA is not the place you want to try to figure it out. Folks probably thought I was nuts when I first started. I would intentionally drive way off line. I wanted to know why I wasn't supposed to be out there. Maybe it's just me, but I usually don't hammer my students about driving the right line as long as they're pretty close. I focus more on things like steering, braking and throttle inputs. Those are the things that can get you in big trouble, but also the things that make great drivers.
So I say go out there and have fun; get comfortable and it will become more natural. Sorry for the sermon. :o
So I say go out there and have fun; get comfortable and it will become more natural. Sorry for the sermon. :o
06-08-2010, 01:47 AM
#11
Racer
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I agree with Sperkins. The perfect line is important but I think car control is more important. I started messing around with off line entries in DE2 when no one else was around.
Sometimes you can overthink things too much and that messes with your flow. Relax and get into a rythem while hitting your marks. If you miss don't worry about it too much and get it the next time around.
Five at RA is a tough one for me also. The fun part is experimenting with differnt lines and figuring out what works best for you and your car.
Cool video. Now I'm all pumped up for June Jam.
Sometimes you can overthink things too much and that messes with your flow. Relax and get into a rythem while hitting your marks. If you miss don't worry about it too much and get it the next time around.
Five at RA is a tough one for me also. The fun part is experimenting with differnt lines and figuring out what works best for you and your car.
Cool video. Now I'm all pumped up for June Jam.
06-08-2010, 08:22 AM
#12
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
06-08-2010, 08:50 AM
#13
Le Mans Master
Sure the line wasn't exactly perfect in a few areas, but that's no big deal. You'll find the line you're most comfortable with and build on it. What I picked up on most was your verbal cues. It seemed to me like you just weren't relaxed and were beating yourself up. I heard you say several times to your instructor that you "missed" it. It's good that you recognized it, but you shouldn't harp on it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe you are 'pointing' the car rather than being free with it (if that makes sense). I would have liked to see some in car video to watch your hands. Do you tend to grip the wheel really hard or are you feeling the car through it? You gotta figure out how to be relaxed and yet be focused enough to hit the right marks without having to think about it. There are so many other things about this hobby than driving the perfect line. Sure it's important for a lot of reasons, but what are you gonna do when you get off line with just a little too much speed? You have to understand your car and be able to make the neccessary inputs when you need to. Barrelling down the hill through T12 way too hot at RA is not the place you want to try to figure it out. Folks probably thought I was nuts when I first started. I would intentionally drive way off line. I wanted to know why I wasn't supposed to be out there. Maybe it's just me, but I usually don't hammer my students about driving the right line as long as they're pretty close. I focus more on things like steering, braking and throttle inputs. Those are the things that can get you in big trouble, but also the things that make great drivers.
So I say go out there and have fun; get comfortable and it will become more natural. Sorry for the sermon. :o
So I say go out there and have fun; get comfortable and it will become more natural. Sorry for the sermon. :o
06-08-2010, 11:14 AM
#14
Drifting
Sure the line wasn't exactly perfect in a few areas, but that's no big deal. You'll find the line you're most comfortable with and build on it. What I picked up on most was your verbal cues. It seemed to me like you just weren't relaxed and were beating yourself up. I heard you say several times to your instructor that you "missed" it. It's good that you recognized it, but you shouldn't harp on it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe you are 'pointing' the car rather than being free with it (if that makes sense). I would have liked to see some in car video to watch your hands. Do you tend to grip the wheel really hard or are you feeling the car through it? You gotta figure out how to be relaxed and yet be focused enough to hit the right marks without having to think about it. There are so many other things about this hobby than driving the perfect line. Sure it's important for a lot of reasons, but what are you gonna do when you get off line with just a little too much speed? You have to understand your car and be able to make the neccessary inputs when you need to. Barrelling down the hill through T12 way too hot at RA is not the place you want to try to figure it out. Folks probably thought I was nuts when I first started. I would intentionally drive way off line. I wanted to know why I wasn't supposed to be out there. Maybe it's just me, but I usually don't hammer my students about driving the right line as long as they're pretty close. I focus more on things like steering, braking and throttle inputs. Those are the things that can get you in big trouble, but also the things that make great drivers.
So I say go out there and have fun; get comfortable and it will become more natural. Sorry for the sermon. :o
So I say go out there and have fun; get comfortable and it will become more natural. Sorry for the sermon. :o
06-08-2010, 11:59 AM
#15
Melting Slicks
http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks...ta.html#HotLap
In short, for a big heavy vette, the straighter you go, the better you'll go. Don't try to get back to the left coming over the top of the hill (turn 2). Just fly over the top, straight line the braking zone, and nail the curbing on the right side and drift thru the corner.
The same can be said for 5. Come flying down the esses, straight line brake and use the curbing at the exit to help carry your speed.
I've got some good video out there on Youtube...under "wtknght1" The last lap of the 09 ARRC race is on my page somewhere that'll show you what I'm talking about.
In short, for a big heavy vette, the straighter you go, the better you'll go. Don't try to get back to the left coming over the top of the hill (turn 2). Just fly over the top, straight line the braking zone, and nail the curbing on the right side and drift thru the corner.
The same can be said for 5. Come flying down the esses, straight line brake and use the curbing at the exit to help carry your speed.
I've got some good video out there on Youtube...under "wtknght1" The last lap of the 09 ARRC race is on my page somewhere that'll show you what I'm talking about.
06-08-2010, 12:05 PM
#16
Drifting
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06-08-2010, 01:34 PM
#18
Instructor
What Gatorac & Sperkins said was spot on...now I don't know Road Atlanta; I mostly instruct at Mid-Ohio, but there are some common truths that hold everywhere...
First, take a mindset like what Sperkins was talking about...don't worry so much about what line you were taught before, as it varies slightly, and sometimes greatly from day to day and car to car and driver to driver...the school line we teach is simply the widest arc through any particular corner...it's merely a guide...
I tell my students that there are no absolutes to HPDE (other than the laws of physics)...what that means is this is a "soft science" (taken from Keith Code), and that to progress one must gain from the cumulative experience of those of us who are instructing...take what works for you and implement that...
Gatorac's right about the "eyes-up" thing...remember that you're not driving a car, you're piloting a time machine...what's behind you is the past, and nothing can be done about that, where you're sitting is the present, and you're looking out the windshield at the future...your ability to navigate swiftly into the future depends on how well and how far you can see into that future...
First, take a mindset like what Sperkins was talking about...don't worry so much about what line you were taught before, as it varies slightly, and sometimes greatly from day to day and car to car and driver to driver...the school line we teach is simply the widest arc through any particular corner...it's merely a guide...
I tell my students that there are no absolutes to HPDE (other than the laws of physics)...what that means is this is a "soft science" (taken from Keith Code), and that to progress one must gain from the cumulative experience of those of us who are instructing...take what works for you and implement that...
Gatorac's right about the "eyes-up" thing...remember that you're not driving a car, you're piloting a time machine...what's behind you is the past, and nothing can be done about that, where you're sitting is the present, and you're looking out the windshield at the future...your ability to navigate swiftly into the future depends on how well and how far you can see into that future...
06-08-2010, 02:13 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
