bad fire @ Texas IRL race
06-07-2010, 08:33 PM
#2
Team Owner
My first impression is the safety crew failed miserably. They should have been extinguishing the fire faster with her in the car. They should have been extracting her at the same time. Second would have knocked fire down Running around with a limp hose
They need to practice escape more also. Yes no?
They need to practice escape more also. Yes no?
Last edited by John Shiels; 06-07-2010 at 08:35 PM.
06-07-2010, 08:43 PM
#3
Drifting
My first impression is the safety crew failed miserably. They should have been extinguishing the fire faster with her in the car. They should have been extracting her at the same time. Second would have knocked fire down Running around with a limp hose
They need to practice escape more also. Yes no?
They need to practice escape more also. Yes no?
06-07-2010, 09:56 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
There was a problem with escape. I think when she hit the wall something happened to the tub and some obstruction prevented her from being able to get out. You could tell when she was there/stopped by herself she was trying to get something undone. Safety harnesses you dont need to be able to see to get undone, just feel, and in a formula car (any car for that matter) it's very easy to find. She also was struggling to pull herself out, and the fire crew struggled to pulling her out..just my opinion, but something was amiss inside the cockpit. Glad to know her only injury was 2nd degree burns to her right hand from trying to get out; could have been much worse.
and yes, the safety crew absolutely failed. It also took FAR too long for a crew to get there, and even longer for the 2nd crew to get there.
and yes, the safety crew absolutely failed. It also took FAR too long for a crew to get there, and even longer for the 2nd crew to get there.
06-07-2010, 10:51 PM
#7
Safety Car
Can the driver get out alone? The commentator said that 2 clips need to be undone on the head/neck restraint that is part of the car - and she was pulled out w/o that piece being removed. It didn't appear to be damaged, but it also didn't appear that the safety crew knew they had to remove this piece/how to extract the driver. Not to mention they took forever to get an extinguisher working.
06-07-2010, 10:58 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
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The cockpit surround wouldn't come out but I doubt it was because of the hit, more likely they just had a janky fastening system (not uncommon). It's very difficult to get out with the cockpit surround still in place ... as you saw.
06-08-2010, 04:30 AM
#9
Burning Brakes
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I've seen quite a few drivers get out without removing that surround but never in an emergency. There was likely a combination of fatigue, panic, and inexperience in that particular car that caused her to not egress as quickly as she needed to.
No doubt the safety crew left something to be desired.
There was also a pretty big fire at the rolex 6 hr at the glen race with the mike shank dp car. The driver egressed with no problems though aside from maybe missing the fire bottle switch. The real issue here was the fact that he had to drive with the car on fire for about 30 seconds to pit entrance to be close to somebody with fire fighting capability.
No doubt the safety crew left something to be desired.
There was also a pretty big fire at the rolex 6 hr at the glen race with the mike shank dp car. The driver egressed with no problems though aside from maybe missing the fire bottle switch. The real issue here was the fact that he had to drive with the car on fire for about 30 seconds to pit entrance to be close to somebody with fire fighting capability.
Last edited by WBHighwind; 06-08-2010 at 04:38 AM.
06-08-2010, 06:27 AM
#10
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22-'23-'24
years back I recall them testing the escape time for the drivers, making them practice, and of course there was no surround piece on the helmets trapping them in. The only reason I remember was a injured driver wanted to start the 500 with cracked ribs or something and he had to still meet the safety time to be allowed to start.
But regardless, the safety crew messed up, while the hoses were limp someone from each truck should have been out with fire ext. to keep the fire in check. Even the guy with the fire ext. struggled with the safety pin or something. Pins out when on the track guys!
NHRA's safety crew for the pro races is one of the models to watch, fire hose "guns" on the trucks, they are mobile before the cars stop but of course they only have a shorter strip of pavement and they don't have 30 other cars trying to get by either.
But regardless, the safety crew messed up, while the hoses were limp someone from each truck should have been out with fire ext. to keep the fire in check. Even the guy with the fire ext. struggled with the safety pin or something. Pins out when on the track guys!
NHRA's safety crew for the pro races is one of the models to watch, fire hose "guns" on the trucks, they are mobile before the cars stop but of course they only have a shorter strip of pavement and they don't have 30 other cars trying to get by either.
Last edited by 68sixspeed; 06-08-2010 at 06:29 AM.
06-08-2010, 06:39 AM
#11
Racer
the safety team for the IRL is pretty unique in that it travels with the team, and it's usually good, very good. trucks will be moving to a scene while the car is still sliding to a stop.
you don't usually see that happen in the IRL
you don't usually see that happen in the IRL
06-08-2010, 07:41 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
Not to steal your thread, but the Michael Shank DP car had a bad fire this past weekend at Watkins Glen. Looked like the driver got in a hurry and forgot to pull the fire extuinguisher handle after he tried to drive it back to the pits.
06-08-2010, 08:24 PM
#13
Team Owner
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Hijack away, the more we know about how to deal with fire the better
Glad the driver is OK
get out 1st, worry about the car later.
Glad the driver is OK
get out 1st, worry about the car later.
06-08-2010, 09:08 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Looked like the last guy out of the second truck saved the day. I didn't see where he struggled to do anything but negotiate the limp fire hoses to get to the car. He sprayed a blast on his way to make sure it would work and did some fancy dancing to get in position to put the fire out. It also looked like he put the fire out all by himself and the hoses never played a role in the extinguishing.
06-08-2010, 11:29 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
I'd thought about that last year when Massa had his horrendous accident. The safety car with the doctor had to be dispatched from pit lane. And even though the accident happened near the end of the lap, the pace car drove an entire lap to get to the scene. It took almost 2 minutes before someone with medical expertise arrived. If it had taken that long when Zanardi had his crash, he probably wouldn't have survived.
Reading that article Joemoia posted, it sounds like it was a cascading number of errors that lead to it taking so long to get her out of the car. Much like how a plane crash is rarely caused by a single problem I suppose. Luckily the results weren't tragic this time, and I'm sure the safety crew will learn from what went wrong.
Stephen Olvey has a book called Rapid Response I've been meaning to read but haven't yet got around to it.
http://www.amazon.com/Rapid-Response...dp/1844253392/
06-08-2010, 11:47 PM
#17
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My first impression is the safety crew failed miserably. They should have been extinguishing the fire faster with her in the car. They should have been extracting her at the same time. Second would have knocked fire down Running around with a limp hose
They need to practice escape more also. Yes no?
They need to practice escape more also. Yes no?
It's easy to second guess but it sure seemed like a cluster %#($ They got there quick enough but it took way too long to start knocking the fire back and begin extracting the driver.
06-17-2010, 08:55 AM
#19
Le Mans Master
Wow, what an insightful investigation! "We should have used the fire extinguishers". 
I won't try to get into the minds of the responders, but they sure didn't move very quickly at first, and no one from the first truck grabbed an extinguisher! I'm glad the only consequence is one of embarrassment for those crews; hate to even consider the scenario where de Silvestro is seriously injured.
I understand that fire is intimidating, but these guys are supposed to be PROs. Think they've got a way to go to get back up to the old CART safety crew standards.
I won't try to get into the minds of the responders, but they sure didn't move very quickly at first, and no one from the first truck grabbed an extinguisher! I'm glad the only consequence is one of embarrassment for those crews; hate to even consider the scenario where de Silvestro is seriously injured.I understand that fire is intimidating, but these guys are supposed to be PROs. Think they've got a way to go to get back up to the old CART safety crew standards.