geerookie

I'm throwing this out here for some open discussion.
Assume a well prepared street car that is set up for track use only.
Say a C5 Corvette with stock motor (350hp)
Top of the line suspension and 275/35 - 18 slicks on standard Z06 rear wheels all around.
The car has a good, not stock brake system.

All drivers drive the same car under the same conditions but lap times vary by say, 10 seconds.
The difference is chalked up to "Driver Skill"

So what is driver skill?
I know many drivers who have many years of experience and are accepted by others as very skilled but yet some guy who has been driving for 2 years or less can beat them by seconds in the same car....Why is this?

Thanks to BobMoore2 for a clearer vision of what I'm after here:
See post #52 for the full explanation

What we should be talking about is:
1. What natural talents are required to be a greatly skilled driver?
2. How does one determine whether he has the necessary talents?
3. Assuming one has the talents, what must one learn/know to be a greatly skilled driver?
4. Are there some things one can learn or concentrate on, that will partially compensate for a lack of a certain natural talent?[/

Jason

Crazy/commitment

varkwso

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots. There are no old bold pilots.

Till you have crashed a few your experience is not complete.

drivinhard

because IMHO "skilled" and "fast" are 2 different things

varkwso

but there are fast skilled drivers...

geerookie

I can check that off my bucket list ....Twice

geerookie

I agree, "Skilled" and "Fast" are two different things but I also believe there are skilled AND fast drivers.

What is the difference between skilled slow and skilled fast?

Bold?

varkwso

In my case it is a good rabbit...if you are sympathetic to the car (and consumables) you often are skilled slow.

drivinhard

God given talent.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure you can put your finger on it or learn it (or teach it).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t8QMyuGhdE

Olitho

1. It all comes down to how attuned you are to what is happening to the vehicle and how quickly you respond with appropriate measure to the car going out of control. When driving fast around the track the car is in a constant state of going out of control. A good driver will make a fast lap without looking like he is working hard. He is so quick with just the right inputs it looks effortless. It is the ability to feel the car and provide just the right needed input that allows one driver to turn 1:30 on a track and another to drive 1:25. Just watch a driver slow in response and you will see a lot of slipping and sliding. He may keep it on the track or he might not. A good save will make him look like a hero, but in fact, his driving is much more flawed than the guy who is quick to respond, so quick you cannot even see what he felt and did. It just felt smooth.
2. This assumes they are both driving the correct driving line, hitting the right apexes, etc. but this is not always so. So the other big factor is driving line, brake points, etc. Some of this is inseparable from #1.
3. Sure boldness, plays a role, but without the driver feeling comfortable with #1 and #2, well then you just have a car minutes away from being wadded up while not really being driven very fast anyway.

Those are my opinions.

geerookie

This sounds better than, "You have no *****."

geerookie

So assume the driver does have "some" of the "God Given Talent" needed, How do you get to this point without spending more money than I will make in the next 10 years?

Is there a method to develop the "feeling" and "skill"?
I don't think they are mutually exclusive.

varkwso

Olitho said it well. Some drivers have the feel. Other drivers have the "intestinal fortitude" and get away with overdriving the car.

SeatTime builds feel but god given talent is the best.

drivinhard

I guess we'd have to establish the context of what we are talking about.

Are we talking about drivers at a weekend hobby level like us? or semi pro? or pro (paid) or international level F1 caliber?

So cough it up, who did you beat by 10 seconds

varkwso

Being married I lost those long ago...

RX7 KLR

Most everyone who turns a wheel on the track thinks they can drive, and that they are fast. This seems to be particularly evident at track days. But often traveling outside of your fishbowl will show you otherwise... There is almost always someone faster out there.

If you want to find out where you are getting beat have someone fast drive your car with a data system in it, then you drive it and compare the data. Small differences add up.

AU N EGL

Just say'n

Olitho

I disagree completely with the "***** and Stupidity" theory. Fast drivers, even if they have only been doing it two years, are very disciplined and calculating. These traits are coupled with a natural talent for feeling the car. Some might call it intuition or instinct, but it is always coupled with I might add a competitve discipline and calculating ability.

Oli

AU N EGL

with only up to two years experience ?

Not sure if that is enough time for natural talent to come out.

0Randy@DRM

It's the ninth sense that makes a driver.

http://www.awakeinthislife.com/2008/05/the-ninth-sense/


The opposite of what I do is skill.

Randy