Bill Dearborn

The BMW Club chapter that I instruct with held an instructor's seminar over the weekend. Joe Marko of HMS Motorsports did the presentation on track safety. He mentioned there has been some helmet/air bag deployment testing done at Delphi. The tests showed there is no difference between an open face helmet and a full face helmet with its visor closed/locked or removed when an air bag deploys. The air bag doesn't get caught under the chin of the full face helmet. However, if you have the visor partially open instead of fully down and locked into place the air bag will catch the visor and throw your helmet backwards. Sun shields/visors over the eye port on open face and full face helmets will do the same thing so they need to be removed.

Bill

fatbillybob

Thanks bill. Marking is awesome. Did he talk about left side nets with windownets?

LTC Z06

Good to know.

MR Turco

Great advice

Bill Dearborn

Nothing about window nets. A lot of discussion of how to do a quick inspection of a student's car's restraint systems before you crawl into it. What a belt that has been in a crash looks like, where to look for wear and age marks, proper wrapping of the belt around a 3 bar lock. Tech inspection should find a bunch of what he mentioned but he said it was always a good idea to go over the same things in case something got missed. A lot of discussion of what happens when you are in an accident and how you and your belts stretch, then rebound and how your helmet hits the head rest and the importance of having the head rest at the correct height so your helmet doesn't go over it. A lot of interesting videos showing the testing that was done along with some in car camera shots of actual crashes. One video showed a driver with instructor in a crash where their two helmets hit each other.

Bill

bags142

Thanks for the info!!

But a question from a new guy doing HPDE's, is removing the visor at the top of the opening "modifying" the helmet? And is this something that could cause any issues with the governing body of an event?

Or is it a personal prefference thing and I am over thinking it?

Wicked Weasel

I can't answer your question but I can tell you NJ requires a visor. I always run with mine up but after reading this I will be closing it.

AU N EGL

I have had items come bouncing into the cockpit and hit my eye shield. Sand, dirt, track turds. Best to leave the eye shield down at all times.

or even bolts, as in Rubins a few years ago.

Jason

I've always been a big fan of soft things in the cockpit to hit. The full face/airbag scare always sounded a little off to me

Bill Dearborn

I doubt it would be considered modifying the helmet. The so called peak visors are just snapped onto the helmet and are a sun shield. The NASCAR style bill that you see on a lot of open face helmets is held on with 3 or 4 snaps. Joe had several of the Stilo helmets that he sells at the seminar. They have an optional peak visor to block the sun that can be added to a full face helmet so you can get both styles of visors on one helmet. I don't think any other manufacturer offers that option. I have to say those were Cadillac helmets. They had noise reducing ear muffs that reduced sounds from outside the helmet and had integrated radio wiring so you don't have wires running around inside the helmet.

Bill

bags142

Ok.. and just to be very clear here is a pic of the things I am talking about removing just to make sure they are what you are saying.

I don't have the red arrow part, but I do have the yellow arrow part. So you are saying remove both of these?









And Bill, sorry for all the questions, and thank you for taking the time to pass the info along to begin with and to answer my questions

Flies Lo

Bill, thanks for the information...there has been a lot of discussion in PCA about the airbag/full face helmet thing with the PCA regions I instruct for, and we also have had no resolution regarding it...I run with my full face visor down, and never thought the airbag would grab the bottom of my helmet, but some folks were convinced it would...

Good Info!

Bill Dearborn

Your PCA region might be able to get Joe to make a presentation. He supports a lot of the German car club activities. Look up HMS Motorsports in the Boston area on the web and talk to him. The day after the seminar he did a car safety inspection/approval for all racers and instructors for GVC BMW CCA that would hold for the rest of the season. I know he is a sponsor/instructor for the chapter and has his truck at all of their driving schools.

Bill

Bill Dearborn

From the picture I am not sure if there is a clear face shield visor underneath. If there is it should be completely closed and locked so nothing can come in through the face port while all of the other stuff should be taken off. If you want the face shield open then it should be removed as well. A full face helmet with an open face port and an open face helmet react the same way to the air bag.

Any thing that looks like this should be either fully closed and locked or completely removed.


Anything that looks like this should be removed.


Bill

ScaryFast

I'm having a hard time envisioning this phenomenon. The airbag will be fully deployed long before the driver's head gets there. The bag inflates in a matter of milliseconds with the intent to "catch' the driver in a fully inflated bag and decelarate the head and neck slowly as air escapes from the vent in the back of the airbag. The bag will not come out and smash into your helmet and throw you back.

I can see it being possible that as the driver's head moves forward and contacts the bag the visor could cause the neck to bend (as if the driver were "looking up"), but certainly not forcefully throw the person's head backward.

Did they show video of this situation? In general, a properly belted occupant should have little to no actual contact with the bag unless the seat is very far forward.

Bill Dearborn

I suspect what you say isn't correct. The videos that were shown show quite a bit of body and belt stretch with the person coming very close to the steering wheel.

If I remember what Joe said correctly in an impact without an air bag a person's body and belts will stretch about a foot forward. The looser the lap belt the further forward they go.

Then there is the air bag itself. Unless you happen to fasten the stock seat belts while you have a harness on the air bag system will think it is dealing with an unbelted person and deploy at full force. With your body moving forward over the lap belt (which is also stretching) your head is going down into the air bag thus the bag can catch on an obtrusion on the front of the helmet.

You can call Joe at HMS and discuss this with him if you want. He is the expert. I am not even close to being an expert and all I am doing is just trying to relate to you what he has said. It is always better to get the information from the horse's mouth than an intermediary on a subject that is as important as this.

Bill

Jason

That's always been my opinion. And I've wrecked a couple cars with and without airbags.

bags142

Crystal clear.. Thanks!

Bill Dearborn

As I said I am not the expert but only listened to what he said. It is obvious from all of the videos shown that the body gets thrown forward in the belts during a frontal impact. The body is definitely not held in place by any harness during a crash. That is one of the reasons he also showed us what to look for when inspecting harnesses. Any waviness in the belt material edges indicates the harness should be replaced because it was stretched. How much depends on the G level but a moderate crash probably generates 30 to 40 Gs of deceleration. Joe mentioned that Elliot Sadler's crash this season peaked at 79 Gs.

Bill

Bills Z06

Great information guys. I usually run with my face sheild up because of the temps down here in the Houston area during the summer. I won't be doing that any more. I never really gave that issue any thought at all. Face shield down from now on!