Supercharged111

I ran Hawk HPS pads in my truck and got 40k out of them. They bit better than whatever junk was in there before, so they seemed OK. I was thinking of going HP+ on the Vette though. It's one of those do it all cars: street, auto-x, HPDE. I've faded brakes before and it sucks. Since I have no experience with the HP+, I'm wondering if it comes recommended by my peers? I saw a couple threads pushing Carbotechs, but I'd always envisioned those as a track only pad. . . How many miles should I expect out of them? I do realize what a loaded question that is.

KNSBrakes

HP+

Great cold bite and generally consistent and easy to use. Halfway between street and track friction.

Decent fade resistance but ultimately will fade on track at some point.

Moderate pad and rotor wear until overheated. The dust is a bit aggressive.

It is certainly one of the best auto-x pads made but can prove to be too aggressive (noise/dust) for some street users - and not enough for some track users.

oh1vette

Not for me.....

Waaayyyy toooo dusty for street application in my opinion. After 2 days of my commute (80 mi/not alot of stop and go) the wheels were black

I switched to the HP and there is way less dusting...my guess 75% less....

Guess it would depend on your percentage of street Vs the HPDE/AutoX...

redtopz

That is spot on from my experience . As I became faster on the track, these pads did not work for me. Couldn't take the heat.

Bill32

Yep, as you move from Novice to Intermediate levels in HPDE, at some point these won't keep up with your driving.

A lot of guys run them on the street but the last C5 I was in on the street had bad squeal.

And Hawk doesn't recommend these pads for the street because of noise, dust and rotor wear.

VetteDrmr

+2. One thing I'd add is the noise. Street use they can squeak quite a bit as the transfer layer wears off the rotor.

For your three uses (street, autox, DE) the HP+ rank as 3, 1, 2).

HTH, and have a good one,
Mike

Kubs

I would have to agree with the majority. They work great for entry level DE pads. I also have cooling ducts to my rotors which helped them last longer during a session before getting too hot. I would not try to use a race compound tire with them as they will heat up more (you can brake harder with better tires). The only time I used them on track was with street tires, otherwise I use track pads. They are a bit noisy on the street but it didnt bother me.

froggy47

+1

I would only add that I never had any street squeal with my hp+, I am very thorough in the install using both grease and anti squeal products.


When you get to the red group you will want more pad in front anyway.

Supercharged111

Sounds like what I'm after for this season. I know that's how they're marketed, just wanted to make sure that they stacked up. Do they obliterate rotors when overheated?

rbl

I'll be odd-man-out on this then.

I have done over 100 autocross and over 100 track days on PFC "Z" rated pads on the Corvette/s and have never experienced excessive dusting, excessive fading, short life, excessive rotor wear or squeal. In fact I consider the pads "friendly" to the Corvette and I am in the ABS all the time so there is no tire left but the brakes are good.

I also drive the car on the street and the car runs in the advanced and instructor group on Hoosiers or Toyo's so it isn't a waxer and it is not the fastest either.

They used to be available from AutoZone and they would actually give you a new set if you wore them down to <50% in a year ... which I surely did! That usually worked once anyway and I felt obligated to take them up on their unconditional warranty.

VetteDrmr

I love the PFC Z-rated pads for my Vette. Unfortunately they seem to be either impossible or near-impossible to find. Shame to see them disappear.

DCW1

What you're seeing is that different drivers can have very different experiences with the same pads. A lot of it probably has to do with style of braking, as well as tire types as some have mentioned.

There's no substitute for seeing what works for you and the way you drive. The good news is that you've been given two good choices here -- the HP+ and PFC Z.

FWIW, I do around a dozen track days a year in Norcal. My first pad upgrade was to the PFC Z. They worked great for a while, and they are definitely low dust and quiet on the street. At some point, however, I was getting a lot of pad material transferring onto the rotors. Next step was the EBC BlueStuff, which I wasn't happy with at all. I now use HP+ with Toyo R888's and brake ducts, and I'm very happy. Initial bite is better than the others (for me), and I haven't had a fading problem in my 20 minute sessions. They do dust like crazy, and they squeal on the street. But what you'll find if you keep researching the forum on this topic is that there's no single good solution for the range of applications you've mentioned.

Good luck and have fun.

justkickin

I run the HP+ in my C5Z and do about 20 autox/yr and 2-3HPDE. I leave them in for the street and they are fine. The noise is there, but it doesn't bother me. It will bother some though. Wax your wheels and the dusting isn't that hard to deal with. Not easy, but not impossible.

To be honest, at track days I don't go 10/10ths either as I need to make sure I have a ride home...and my wife doesn't kill me when I get there lol.

I do run streets, RS3s at autox and track with no issues on fade.

Your mileage may vary, but I don't mind them, especially since I am too lazy to swap pads and rebed them constantly with the number of weekends I am autox'ing or tracking. The HP+ seems to be a reasonable solution for my needs.

Supercharged111

I don't expect 1 pad to do it all, I assume I'll burn a set up this year and next year I can step up my game with separate street/track tires and brakes. This year that's not financially in the cards, sounds like the HP+ is what I was hoping it was. My car came with newish el cheapo RE970s so I don't need a pad to end the world. Thanks to all who've offered first hand experience. As for the brake ducts that were mentioned, I've got factory C5Z brake ducts. Are there things available that bolt to the knuckle and force the air to the center of the rotor?

crimlwC6

Quantum brake duct kit

KNSBrakes

Overheated pads tend to groove rotors because the metals become 'metal oxides' such as iron oxide. They are hard and will chew up a rotor.

(This from my physics professor brother in law who took a 10 second glance at a well used track pad and immediately said "Oh - I guess there is iron in there because I see the iron oxide film (blue tint) on the surface of the pad)

...um...yeeeah.....

X25

HP+ worked great on my brother's C5 Z06 both at the street and the track, and the squeal was tolerable, too. Seeing how happy he is, I tried them on my C6 Z51, and they were a bit too loud. I gave them yet another try when I got my C6 Z06, and their squeal was intolerable! Perhaps it was because C6 Z06 rotors are much bigger and I used OEM drilled rotors, but still, the squeal was at the level of being embarrassing.

We also used PFC Z, and it was a great all around pad. We were not as hard on brakes at the track at the time, so I'm not sure how it would hold up if I were to try it again.

As I pointed out in some other threads, I have switched to Raybestos ST43 pads. They bite very well even when cold, and yet they are real race pads; if I recall correctly, their operating range is up to 1400 degrees F. I learned about these pads when I bought an EvoX in summer. EvoX is a pretty heavy car with not enough brake cooling, and pad/rotor temps and wear becomes an issue. According to tests done by a few EvoX sponsored racers, ST43 lasts 2-3x longer than most other popular pads, and are also very friendly to the rotors. Sounds too good to be true? The biggest issues as far as I could see: They are more expensive, and they squeal a lot! The price is justified when you consider the very long life (some go through whole season with the same set of rotors/pads), but I wouldn't use it as a street pad because of this noise issue..

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

The Carbotech Xp8 will do what you are looking for, yes you will have noise and dust but the dust is 100% non-corrosive brake dust, will not harm your wheels or your paint.


A high torque brake compound with a wide operating temperature range of 200°F-1350°F+ (93°C to 732°C+). Carbotech™ XP8™ is the first of our racing compounds. Good initial bite at race temperatures, high coefficient of friction, excellent modulation and release characteristics. Extremely high fade resistance and very rotor friendly. Excellent as a front brake pad for lighter applications weighing around 2,400lbs or less. Perfect for track day use with any tire and can still be driven safely to and from the track. Carbotech™ does NOT recommended XP8™ as a daily driven street pad due to elevated levels of dust and noise. Carbotech™ XP8™ is a great compound on the front & rear of most open wheel and sports racers.

MR Turco

I'm surprised with some of the feedback on this pad. I've tried these on a few different cars and found them to be junk. They are a street at best. The cars i've autox'd with that have them brake for ****.

Bill Dearborn

I used them for autocross and HPDEs. They are a great autocross pad with lots of bite to get you slowed down quick. On the track I was using them with street tires. They are good for the first half of a session and then as the pads get too hot braking gets more exciting with less initial bite and longer braking distances. After a few sessions they start transferring uneven deposits on the rotor so really thump badly for all subsequent sessions. I would get about 3 two day events out of the front pads with the stock C6Z rotors going about the same before they cracked. Considering the options the HP+ were almost good enough with a great price, the Cobalt CSR pads were great and lasted almost as long but the price was really high compared to the HP+. Same goes goes for the Carbotechs, however, they tended to wear faster than the other brands so coupled with a high initial price and a shorter life they were the most expensive pads. I got a day and a half out of my Carbotech XP10s on the front of the car. I really liked the feel and thought I had finally found the pad I was going to use from that time forward until at the end of the day I checked the pads and found them so badly worn I knew I wouldn't get through the next day. So I ended up going back to the HP+. If Hawk made them so they could take another 300 degrees they would be a great pad.

Bill