Crash at Turn 7 at VIR, March 3, 2012 (long story)
03-29-2012, 01:19 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Crash at Turn 7 at VIR, March 3, 2012 (long story)
The weekend did not start well. Driving down from Richmond, I bagged a vulture and it took out the grill of my Sierra Denali, crapped all over my radiator and after I started to slow down and pull over, pondering how I would get a flapping, angry vulture out of the radiator without getting bit, scratched or puked on, the darned thing flew away! I should have taken that as a bad omen.
My car is a black 2007 ZO6 with the Katech aero package, DRM Bilstein shocks, poly bushings, 18” CCW wheels with Michelin racing slicks (new), racing seats with 6-point harnesses, Hans device, and a stock engine with an upgraded dry sump tank. I always carry track insurance.
I awoke Saturday morning to a cold rain with the weather forecast predicting clearing around noon. After the Chin Motorsports driver’s meeting, I just sat out the warm-up laps and the morning session. My second session was at 12:00 Noon, so I went out with caution to find the track fairly dry but cold. With the new Michelin racing slicks still covered with mould release, I even dialed in more caution. After a couple of warm-up laps with the nannies full on, I went into the hot pits and turned the nannies off. On the next lap, I got a “debris” flag at Turn 6A before the Bridge Straight. I slowed but did not notice anything on the track. The new flag station on the left after T-6 did not display a debris flag (nor did the flag station at T-7) and I let my guard down. I did not accelerate much so I would estimate my maximum speed at that point to be no more than 80 MPH. On hot tires with a hot track, I would be comfortable going into T-7 at 120-125MPH. As you track rats are aware, T-7 barely qualifies as a “corner”; it’s really just a bend that is only important because it sets you up for the uphill esses. I always think of the late Frank Gonzales at this corner because, as my instructor, he got tired of telling me to “hold the corner” and finally just grabbed the steering wheel. I got the point!
As I held the corner, the backend jumped out then grabbed and shot me off the track directly into the tire wall. That part I remember. Here’s the video taken from the second car back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJjNKeCbW98. Sorry for the low quality; I have a much better copy but it’s an .avi file and I can’t download it to YouTube. When the car finally stopped spinning, I had my left foot on the clutch and my right foot on the brake and had a death grip on the steering wheel. At the time, I had absolutely no idea what caused the rear to break loose; it just happened so quickly that I was not able to put it together until after the Z was towed back to the pits and the two drivers behind me came around. The Porsche that was directly behind me said that he saw the liquid trail on the track and thought it was probably antifreeze because “it was not dark enough for oil”. In fact, you can see this on the video starting at T-6. I later heard that the offending car was not Black flagged until Oak Tree. Not sure why there were no debris flags at the flag station after the bridge and at T-7. Following my wreck, the session was Black Flagged for cleanup. I don’t know if they put anything on the track to absorb the liquid, nor did I walk out to the track to look since I didn’t know what the debris flag was for at that point.
I believe the primary cause was antifreeze. Other contributing factors were cold tires & cold track and new race tires not scuffed it yet. Talking with Mark Hicks from Chin Motorsports, he said he has observed a number of off-tracks that were associated with new, un-scuffed Michelin Racing Slicks.
I was tightly strapped into the racing seat and was wearing a Hans Device. I suffered no injuries and, in fact, was not even sore the next day.
As stated earlier, I had track insurance for $50,000. The company that I have been buying insurance through is OnTrackInsurance.com. They place these policies with The Great American Insurance Company. I filed claim online on March 4 and called on Monday, March 5. They were very helpful and were clear as to the process for repairing the car. VIR did not charge for cleanup or towing; however, I did get a bill for $525 for the three tire bundles that saved my butt. The policy does cover cleanup but does not cover physical damage so the tire bundles are not covered. Unfortunately, Great American has a policy that they will not insure a participant again for three years after an accident. Lockton Affinity will insure after one accident but after two, you are uninsurable for three years.
Here’s the pics of the carnage: http://s1148.photobucket.com/albums/o567/jlutherva/ The damages to the Z will not be final until the repairs are complete but are in the neighborhood of $23,000. The deductible is 5% of the stated value or $1500 minimum so in my case, the deductible is $2500. The insurance adjuster from Great American has reviewed and approved the estimate and work has started. One of the first things was to put the car on a frame machine to verify that the frame is not damaged and this has been completed. If the frame had been bent, the car will most probably be totaled. The percentage that Great American uses is 70% of book value. The time to repair is estimated to be 4-5 weeks so by the end of April I should be back in the seat! A check from Great American for the damages is in the mail.
There are several lessons:
1. Track insurance sure does soften the blow!
2. The Hans Device saved my neck!
3. I was obviously less observant than the Porsche behind me. Had I seen the liquid trail, I would probably have slowed more. The next time I see a debris flag, I’ll probably just crap my pants!
4. It’s hard to believe how fast this happened. The time between the rear end becoming loose and hitting the tire wall seemed less than a second. The tire wall is very close to the track at T7, probably because nobody ever wrecks there…. It’s barely a turn! That, however, may not be correct. They didn’t put those tire bundles there for storage.
5. New race tires require careful break-in to wear off the molding compounds and scuff the tires. In addition, I should not have taken off the active handling until the tires were warmed up and scuffed-in.
6. I usually dial back to maybe 80% with a passenger. I wrecked at 66% or less! I’m not sure I’ll ever take a passenger again and if I do, they’ll be wearing a Hans.
Just thought I would share my experience. I never thought this would happen to me.
Jim
My car is a black 2007 ZO6 with the Katech aero package, DRM Bilstein shocks, poly bushings, 18” CCW wheels with Michelin racing slicks (new), racing seats with 6-point harnesses, Hans device, and a stock engine with an upgraded dry sump tank. I always carry track insurance.
I awoke Saturday morning to a cold rain with the weather forecast predicting clearing around noon. After the Chin Motorsports driver’s meeting, I just sat out the warm-up laps and the morning session. My second session was at 12:00 Noon, so I went out with caution to find the track fairly dry but cold. With the new Michelin racing slicks still covered with mould release, I even dialed in more caution. After a couple of warm-up laps with the nannies full on, I went into the hot pits and turned the nannies off. On the next lap, I got a “debris” flag at Turn 6A before the Bridge Straight. I slowed but did not notice anything on the track. The new flag station on the left after T-6 did not display a debris flag (nor did the flag station at T-7) and I let my guard down. I did not accelerate much so I would estimate my maximum speed at that point to be no more than 80 MPH. On hot tires with a hot track, I would be comfortable going into T-7 at 120-125MPH. As you track rats are aware, T-7 barely qualifies as a “corner”; it’s really just a bend that is only important because it sets you up for the uphill esses. I always think of the late Frank Gonzales at this corner because, as my instructor, he got tired of telling me to “hold the corner” and finally just grabbed the steering wheel. I got the point!
As I held the corner, the backend jumped out then grabbed and shot me off the track directly into the tire wall. That part I remember. Here’s the video taken from the second car back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJjNKeCbW98. Sorry for the low quality; I have a much better copy but it’s an .avi file and I can’t download it to YouTube. When the car finally stopped spinning, I had my left foot on the clutch and my right foot on the brake and had a death grip on the steering wheel. At the time, I had absolutely no idea what caused the rear to break loose; it just happened so quickly that I was not able to put it together until after the Z was towed back to the pits and the two drivers behind me came around. The Porsche that was directly behind me said that he saw the liquid trail on the track and thought it was probably antifreeze because “it was not dark enough for oil”. In fact, you can see this on the video starting at T-6. I later heard that the offending car was not Black flagged until Oak Tree. Not sure why there were no debris flags at the flag station after the bridge and at T-7. Following my wreck, the session was Black Flagged for cleanup. I don’t know if they put anything on the track to absorb the liquid, nor did I walk out to the track to look since I didn’t know what the debris flag was for at that point.
I believe the primary cause was antifreeze. Other contributing factors were cold tires & cold track and new race tires not scuffed it yet. Talking with Mark Hicks from Chin Motorsports, he said he has observed a number of off-tracks that were associated with new, un-scuffed Michelin Racing Slicks.
I was tightly strapped into the racing seat and was wearing a Hans Device. I suffered no injuries and, in fact, was not even sore the next day.
As stated earlier, I had track insurance for $50,000. The company that I have been buying insurance through is OnTrackInsurance.com. They place these policies with The Great American Insurance Company. I filed claim online on March 4 and called on Monday, March 5. They were very helpful and were clear as to the process for repairing the car. VIR did not charge for cleanup or towing; however, I did get a bill for $525 for the three tire bundles that saved my butt. The policy does cover cleanup but does not cover physical damage so the tire bundles are not covered. Unfortunately, Great American has a policy that they will not insure a participant again for three years after an accident. Lockton Affinity will insure after one accident but after two, you are uninsurable for three years.
Here’s the pics of the carnage: http://s1148.photobucket.com/albums/o567/jlutherva/ The damages to the Z will not be final until the repairs are complete but are in the neighborhood of $23,000. The deductible is 5% of the stated value or $1500 minimum so in my case, the deductible is $2500. The insurance adjuster from Great American has reviewed and approved the estimate and work has started. One of the first things was to put the car on a frame machine to verify that the frame is not damaged and this has been completed. If the frame had been bent, the car will most probably be totaled. The percentage that Great American uses is 70% of book value. The time to repair is estimated to be 4-5 weeks so by the end of April I should be back in the seat! A check from Great American for the damages is in the mail.
There are several lessons:
1. Track insurance sure does soften the blow!
2. The Hans Device saved my neck!
3. I was obviously less observant than the Porsche behind me. Had I seen the liquid trail, I would probably have slowed more. The next time I see a debris flag, I’ll probably just crap my pants!
4. It’s hard to believe how fast this happened. The time between the rear end becoming loose and hitting the tire wall seemed less than a second. The tire wall is very close to the track at T7, probably because nobody ever wrecks there…. It’s barely a turn! That, however, may not be correct. They didn’t put those tire bundles there for storage.
5. New race tires require careful break-in to wear off the molding compounds and scuff the tires. In addition, I should not have taken off the active handling until the tires were warmed up and scuffed-in.
6. I usually dial back to maybe 80% with a passenger. I wrecked at 66% or less! I’m not sure I’ll ever take a passenger again and if I do, they’ll be wearing a Hans.
Just thought I would share my experience. I never thought this would happen to me.
Jim
Last edited by jlutherva; 03-29-2012 at 01:21 PM. Reason: minor editing
03-29-2012, 01:55 PM
#2
Safety Car
Yep... antifreeze is some slick stuff. Big no-no for race groups to run it. Would be best if HPDE cars didn't either, but the logistics of that for the average HPDEer wouldn't work too well.
Sorry you had to use your insurance, but glad it was there to soften the financial blow.
Sorry you had to use your insurance, but glad it was there to soften the financial blow.
03-29-2012, 02:12 PM
#3
Safety Car
Sorry about your car, however you came out pretty well!
Looking at the video you can see the fluid on track. I am paranoid about driving in any type of fluid, if I see it I will do whatever I can to avoid it.
Another note, I don't think it makes much difference to enter the esses at the middle of the track.
Tim
Looking at the video you can see the fluid on track. I am paranoid about driving in any type of fluid, if I see it I will do whatever I can to avoid it.
Another note, I don't think it makes much difference to enter the esses at the middle of the track.
Tim
03-29-2012, 03:23 PM
#4
Drifting
Thread Starter
Sorry about your car, however you came out pretty well!
Looking at the video you can see the fluid on track. I am paranoid about driving in any type of fluid, if I see it I will do whatever I can to avoid it.
Another note, I don't think it makes much difference to enter the esses at the middle of the track.
Tim
Looking at the video you can see the fluid on track. I am paranoid about driving in any type of fluid, if I see it I will do whatever I can to avoid it.
Another note, I don't think it makes much difference to enter the esses at the middle of the track.
Tim
Right, the video clearly shows a fluid trail. I don't know why I didn't notice it. Next time I see a debris flag I'll be look more for than than a groundhog or fender or whatever....
I'm pretty sure I'm going to be paying more attention to anything that even looks like a fluid trail.WRT T-7, yes, there are at least three different line that drivers use through there to set up for the esses. I've always used the right side of the straight except on late passes.
Jim
03-29-2012, 03:41 PM
#5
Safety Car
Eh... if you're going fast there's only one way to take that turn. Racing is a different story, but TTing you always track out full right under the bridge so you can get far enough left in T7 to setup the esses properly. I'm usually around 130 entering based on traqmate data.
03-29-2012, 03:50 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
Jim,
It was very kind of you to share this experience.
I was driving the Beast a few years ago at Autobahn no more than 30mph on a cold day (gathering MoTec data) when a C5 blew antifreeze all over the track in front of me. I counter-steered and did not panic while going off track (million dollar corner no less) and saved it, but had it been even a cool down lap at slightly faster speed, I would have been toast.
What I was happy to hear from you was:
1) You are not hurt.
2) You are using this experience to make yourself a better driver. Situational awareness is just as important as car control.
3) You are not discouraged about the sport and will be back as soon as repairs are complete.
4) You were wearing a Hans device.
Mike
It was very kind of you to share this experience.
I was driving the Beast a few years ago at Autobahn no more than 30mph on a cold day (gathering MoTec data) when a C5 blew antifreeze all over the track in front of me. I counter-steered and did not panic while going off track (million dollar corner no less) and saved it, but had it been even a cool down lap at slightly faster speed, I would have been toast.
What I was happy to hear from you was:
1) You are not hurt.
2) You are using this experience to make yourself a better driver. Situational awareness is just as important as car control.
3) You are not discouraged about the sport and will be back as soon as repairs are complete.
4) You were wearing a Hans device.
Mike
03-29-2012, 07:10 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Beaverton OR
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Your carnage pics look surprisingly similar to mine about 4 years ago. 
You will learn many lessons from this which will make you a better and safer driver.
Really glad no one was injured.
You will learn many lessons from this which will make you a better and safer driver.
Really glad no one was injured.
03-29-2012, 09:08 PM
#11
Drifting
I keep telling myself it's not a matter of if, but when. Glad you're ok and this is validation of my routine of buying track insurance. Some question me on that, but no more!
03-29-2012, 10:54 PM
#12
Safety Car
Looking at the damp streak starting in 6 I would think the offending car would have overheated in short order. Did you hit the curb in 7 at all, or was the car on the pavement when you lost control?
Last edited by travisnd; 03-29-2012 at 10:57 PM.
03-30-2012, 01:06 AM
#13
Race Director
damn you werent kidding when you pm'ed me and said you didnt get a chance to test em out 
glad you had a hans or your might not have been so lucky, and also happy you had track insurance!
glad you had a hans or your might not have been so lucky, and also happy you had track insurance!
03-30-2012, 09:15 AM
#15
Drifting
Thread Starter
Jim
03-30-2012, 10:14 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
[hijack]Damn, that video of Sam Barnett going into the wall after T.10 never dies. It was listed in that utube link.[/hijack]
03-30-2012, 11:21 AM
#17
Le Mans Master
Having been in a Corvette, at a Chin event in Atlanta, that hit antifreeze and hit a concrete wall hard I can attest it happens quick and antifreeze is not always visible due to track staining. At a Chin event at Sebring we saw a debris flag and saw a cone in track so assumed that was the.issue. it wasn't a Ford GT lost all its coolant. Learning experiences both. Glad you are ok.
04-02-2012, 10:31 AM
#18
Race Director
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Deal's Gap 2004 NCM Motorsports track supporter
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It happens, for sure. I was behind the porshce that let go of the AF and stepped aside to miss it, varkwso was not in view and his student hit it. Again, yesterday, during TT at Putnam I was right behind the LS7 that let go and dumped oil. I, again, stepped aside and missed it. A couple of cars behind did not see it and spun. I have been lucky!
04-02-2012, 10:52 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
It happens, for sure. I was behind the porshce that let go of the AF and stepped aside to miss it, varkwso was not in view and his student hit it. Again, yesterday, during TT at Putnam I was right behind the LS7 that let go and dumped oil. I, again, stepped aside and missed it. A couple of cars behind did not see it and spun. I have been lucky!
I was watching the TT group run when that happened... I still don't understand why they did not just go ahead and throw a red flag out there because the oil went all the way into turn 1. It might've saved a couple cars from going way off like they did.
Glad you made it through that mess... another LS7 bites the dust.
04-02-2012, 10:52 AM
#20
I am usually not a fan of overreaction, but it seems to me, in HPDE (where pretty much all cars are running antifreeze) the policy should be that any fluid spill should result in immediate black flag, not just a debris flag.