Autocrossing & Roadracing Suspension Setup for Track Corvettes, Camber/Caster Adjustments, R-Compound Tires, Race Slicks, Tips on Driving Technique, Events, Results
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

2nd Race Weekend: Report & Questions

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-15-2012, 05:09 PM
  #1  
darguy
Drifting
Thread Starter
 
darguy's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Cortes Island, BC
Posts: 1,421
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts

Default 2nd Race Weekend: Report & Questions

Hey Gang,

Did my 2nd & 3rd Senior CACC races last weekend in my essentially stock 99 FRC at Mission Raceway Park near Vancouver, BC.



Description of car & first race weekend here -> Link.

Overall, I'd say the weekend was pretty good. My front brakes (Carbotech XP12's) were on the thin side going into the weekend, but I thought they'd last the 2 days (they had 4 events of 3x 20 min on them before the weekend). I've been pretty happy with the performance of these brakes - they've worked well when hot even when the pedal was getting pretty long by the end of the sessions (more on that in a bit). They seemed a little grabby in practice & qualifying, and I'd really have to combat locking up the front if I was trying to brake late putting in a hot-lap (ABS is disabled, NT05's with 7 previous sessions, driver training & 2 years of DD'ing). As a result, my quali time on Sat was not as good as the previous event (1 sec slower) - I ended up in Q19 out of 26 cars, roughly middle of the pack time wise with the fast cars about 15 sec ahead of the slow cars (very diverse classes in the run group). It was also considerably warmer with track temps of 105F compared to 73F last race weekend. I'd been feeling like the car was understeering, and with the added temp the pressures were higher than before – so I dropped the fronts by 1psi for quali, and all 4 by another 1psi for the race (had been set to 30 psi all around dead-cold in the AM). That seemed to help settle the car into the corners better.

The Sat start was crazy! One car several rows ahead missed a gear or something and just didn't accelerate when the green dropped & everyone scrambled to try to get around him. I think we were 6 wide 3/4 of the way down the front stretch & I'd gone way on the inside to find room to get up to speed and try to make some passes but had to back off & file back into line as the hot-pit entrance cones were getting ever closer... A bunch of cars made contact going into 1 & there was general mayhem for a lap or so. I tangled for a few laps with a faster cornering Miata that I could get by on the straits, and ended up in 16th with a fast lap about 0.2 over my quali time - and interestingly about 0.5 sec faster than the previous race's time, even with the grabby brakes.

I bled the front brakes after the race but was out of pads. My only spares (as I'm on the edge of a brake upgrade) were my Hawk HP+ 'street' pads that I'd bought for doing Time Attack but had upgraded to the Carbo XP12's. So, Sunday morning I swapped out the pads & stayed out for only 4 laps in practice just to make sure they were bedded to the rotors OK & to compare the braking points. They felt pretty good, and I went into qualifying with the intention of only putting in a couple hot laps & saving them for the race. A bunch of cones got knocked into the middle of the last set of corners (during my hot-lap) & they black-flagged the session, when it resumed I managed to put in a reasonable quali time only 0.1 sec slower than the previous race weekend when the XP12's were still in good shape and 0.8 sec faster than Saturday (and only 0.4 off my best lap time on a much emptier track). That got me into 13th out of 23 cars, and my 'best' time would have only gained me one position. The brakes were feeling a little long already, so I bled them before the race.

The Sunday race also started a little crazy - more contact up front & with the diminished braking power the Miata from Saturday (who I'd qualified directly ahead of) managed to get past me through the first two corners. I was shortly thereafter in a pretty intense battle with an experienced driver in an RX7 that after several laps managed to squeak by me on one of the corners - I kept right on his bumper for several more laps, but was then needing to brake earlier as the HP+'s were starting to fade and he got out of my reach. I held that position and ended up 14th with a fast lap of 1:21.704 only 0.1 off my quali time & my fastest race time yet. This appears to be my 'comfort' zone in traffic with the equipment I have at my present skill level.

I'd started Sunday with 28/29 psi f/r dead cold and ended up here after the race (105F track temp):

PSI – To/Tm/Ti | Ti/Tm/To - PSI
LF: 38 – 131/125/125 | 134/123/120 – 39 :RF
LR: 39 – 120/130/133 | 126/125/127 – 40 :RR

Oil temp was a staggering 304F at the end of the race (Mobil 1 15W-50)! I'd ordered an oil-cooler kit but hadn't had time to install it before the weekend – that's at the top of my list and a must do before the next event. The ambient air temp was ~81F, which is pretty warm for May around here – the next race is in June & it will likely be 90-95F by then.

So, here's where I'm at: I've been reading the current threads about calliper spread & brakes in general – and am feeling like the SKF hub & brakes upgrade needs to happen sooner than later. Yes, I might be able to get by without a 'big' brake kit just yet (and go through another set of $250 pads before the season is out), but when I do the Delrin bushings, get some R-comps and a proper race alignment my lap times will hopefully come down sufficiently to get me up around row 3-4 on the grid. And if so, with around 20 cars behind me at the start I don't want to be braking too early or going long into the corners with 6-8 cars in front of me. I'd also like to have a consistent pedal throughout the event. My conundrum is that I live in an apt with just a carport, but have a good deal on a short-term single car garage rental until the end of July. If I forgo the June race & focus on getting all the 'off season' upgrades done before the following race (in Sept) – then I don't need to rent a garage in the winter – which will save me some serious tire money. That being said, this is the revised plan:

Mid-season upgrades:

1. DRM track-only oil cooler kit & steering rack bushing.
2. Delrin control arm bushings (Phoenix).
3. SKF hubs.
4. Camber kit & studs (Hardbar or Pfadt?)
5. Race alignment.
6a. AP Racing T1 front brake kit & Ferodo DS1.11 500mm pads (Hardbar) OR
6b. Wilwood SL6R Superlite front brake kit. OR ??? (need to fit under my 17” C5Z fronts).

I think at that point, I'd like to get used to those changes over the last 4 races of the year with my longish in the tooth NT05's before making the step up to R-comps for next season. This also helps smooth out the budget some.

Any feedback & comments are appreciated – as usual!


Last edited by darguy; 05-15-2012 at 05:18 PM.
Old 05-15-2012, 08:16 PM
  #2  
63Corvette
Le Mans Master
 
63Corvette's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2001
Location: Granbury Texas
Posts: 9,556
Received 283 Likes on 199 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by darguy
Hey Gang,

Did my 2nd & 3rd Senior CACC races last weekend in my essentially stock 99 FRC at Mission Raceway Park near Vancouver, BC.



Description of car & first race weekend here -> Link.

Overall, I'd say the weekend was pretty good. My front brakes (Carbotech XP12's) were on the thin side going into the weekend, but I thought they'd last the 2 days (they had 4 events of 3x 20 min on them before the weekend). I've been pretty happy with the performance of these brakes - they've worked well when hot even when the pedal was getting pretty long by the end of the sessions (more on that in a bit). They seemed a little grabby in practice & qualifying, and I'd really have to combat locking up the front if I was trying to brake late putting in a hot-lap (ABS is disabled, NT05's with 7 previous sessions, driver training & 2 years of DD'ing). As a result, my quali time on Sat was not as good as the previous event (1 sec slower) - I ended up in Q19 out of 26 cars, roughly middle of the pack time wise with the fast cars about 15 sec ahead of the slow cars (very diverse classes in the run group). It was also considerably warmer with track temps of 105F compared to 73F last race weekend. I'd been feeling like the car was understeering, and with the added temp the pressures were higher than before – so I dropped the fronts by 1psi for quali, and all 4 by another 1psi for the race (had been set to 30 psi all around dead-cold in the AM). That seemed to help settle the car into the corners better.

The Sat start was crazy! One car several rows ahead missed a gear or something and just didn't accelerate when the green dropped & everyone scrambled to try to get around him. I think we were 6 wide 3/4 of the way down the front stretch & I'd gone way on the inside to find room to get up to speed and try to make some passes but had to back off & file back into line as the hot-pit entrance cones were getting ever closer... A bunch of cars made contact going into 1 & there was general mayhem for a lap or so. I tangled for a few laps with a faster cornering Miata that I could get by on the straits, and ended up in 16th with a fast lap about 0.2 over my quali time - and interestingly about 0.5 sec faster than the previous race's time, even with the grabby brakes.

I bled the front brakes after the race but was out of pads. My only spares (as I'm on the edge of a brake upgrade) were my Hawk HP+ 'street' pads that I'd bought for doing Time Attack but had upgraded to the Carbo XP12's. So, Sunday morning I swapped out the pads & stayed out for only 4 laps in practice just to make sure they were bedded to the rotors OK & to compare the braking points. They felt pretty good, and I went into qualifying with the intention of only putting in a couple hot laps & saving them for the race. A bunch of cones got knocked into the middle of the last set of corners (during my hot-lap) & they black-flagged the session, when it resumed I managed to put in a reasonable quali time only 0.1 sec slower than the previous race weekend when the XP12's were still in good shape and 0.8 sec faster than Saturday (and only 0.4 off my best lap time on a much emptier track). That got me into 13th out of 23 cars, and my 'best' time would have only gained me one position. The brakes were feeling a little long already, so I bled them before the race.

The Sunday race also started a little crazy - more contact up front & with the diminished braking power the Miata from Saturday (who I'd qualified directly ahead of) managed to get past me through the first two corners. I was shortly thereafter in a pretty intense battle with an experienced driver in an RX7 that after several laps managed to squeak by me on one of the corners - I kept right on his bumper for several more laps, but was then needing to brake earlier as the HP+'s were starting to fade and he got out of my reach. I held that position and ended up 14th with a fast lap of 1:21.704 only 0.1 off my quali time & my fastest race time yet. This appears to be my 'comfort' zone in traffic with the equipment I have at my present skill level.

I'd started Sunday with 28/29 psi f/r dead cold and ended up here after the race (105F track temp):

PSI – To/Tm/Ti | Ti/Tm/To - PSI
LF: 38 – 131/125/125 | 134/123/120 – 39 :RF
LR: 39 – 120/130/133 | 126/125/127 – 40 :RR

Oil temp was a staggering 304F at the end of the race (Mobil 1 15W-50)! I'd ordered an oil-cooler kit but hadn't had time to install it before the weekend – that's at the top of my list and a must do before the next event. The ambient air temp was ~81F, which is pretty warm for May around here – the next race is in June & it will likely be 90-95F by then.

So, here's where I'm at: I've been reading the current threads about calliper spread & brakes in general – and am feeling like the SKF hub & brakes upgrade needs to happen sooner than later. Yes, I might be able to get by without a 'big' brake kit just yet (and go through another set of $250 pads before the season is out), but when I do the Delrin bushings, get some R-comps and a proper race alignment my lap times will hopefully come down sufficiently to get me up around row 3-4 on the grid. And if so, with around 20 cars behind me at the start I don't want to be braking too early or going long into the corners with 6-8 cars in front of me. I'd also like to have a consistent pedal throughout the event. My conundrum is that I live in an apt with just a carport, but have a good deal on a short-term single car garage rental until the end of July. If I forgo the June race & focus on getting all the 'off season' upgrades done before the following race (in Sept) – then I don't need to rent a garage in the winter – which will save me some serious tire money. That being said, this is the revised plan:

Mid-season upgrades:

1. DRM track-only oil cooler kit & steering rack bushing.
2. Delrin control arm bushings (Phoenix).
3. SKF hubs.
4. Camber kit & studs (Hardbar or Pfadt?)
5. Race alignment.
6a. AP Racing T1 front brake kit & Ferodo DS1.11 500mm pads (Hardbar) OR
6b. Wilwood SL6R Superlite front brake kit. OR ??? (need to fit under my 17” C5Z fronts).

I think at that point, I'd like to get used to those changes over the last 4 races of the year with my longish in the tooth NT05's before making the step up to R-comps for next season. This also helps smooth out the budget some.

Any feedback & comments are appreciated – as usual!

Excellent and informative post, altho I don't have any suggestions in response to your setup and upgrade questions.
BTW if it's allowed by your sanctioning organization, I would upgrade to four 18" wheels. 4 Stock Z06 rear wheels is a cheap way to make that happen. There are more tire choices for this setup, and you can run larger front brakes as well. Best of luck.
Old 05-16-2012, 11:15 AM
  #3  
darguy
Drifting
Thread Starter
 
darguy's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Cortes Island, BC
Posts: 1,421
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts

Default

That's a good point on the wheels - I can go up in size, and I've got a set of 18" C5Z Alcoas set aside for the R-comps when I get them, but was figuring on keeping the 17/18 combo for 'intermediate' tires (it rains a lot here). That being said - I also have a pair of 18" C5Z Speedlines that I could add to the mix to have two full sets of 18" rears and run square setups for both wet and dry.

That would change things up a bit in terms of order of the upgrades - if I go with brakes that only fit under 18" wheels, then I need to buy new tires now, instead of next year. Or, I hold off on the brake upgrade until the end of the season and do the two together...

Any suggestions for 'bigger' 18" C5Z friendly front brake kits?

Old 05-16-2012, 11:48 AM
  #4  
geerookie
Drifting
 
geerookie's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

You could easily lower your oil temps by 20 - 40 degrees by just changing to a good 30 weight oil. I use Amsoil and in 105 ambient temps at VIR (track was 150) I was seeing oil temps at 285 - 295 which is the highest I've ever seen. I don't have an oil cooler. Normally I'm in the 270 - 280 range which is fine for a good synthetic oil and analysis agrees.
Old 05-17-2012, 08:04 PM
  #5  
C66 Racing
Premium Supporting Vendor
 
C66 Racing's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2001
Location: King George VA
Posts: 5,362
Received 35 Likes on 25 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by geerookie
You could easily lower your oil temps by 20 - 40 degrees by just changing to a good 30 weight oil. I use Amsoil and in 105 ambient temps at VIR (track was 150) I was seeing oil temps at 285 - 295 which is the highest I've ever seen. I don't have an oil cooler. Normally I'm in the 270 - 280 range which is fine for a good synthetic oil and analysis agrees.
This is what I use:
AMSOIL Dominator Synthetic 10w30 Racing Motor Oil (Product Code RD30QT)
(zinc – 1575 ppm, phosphorus 1474 ppm)

I do have an external oil cooler added and my oil temps normally about 245-255F. Personally, higher than that and I'd consider a 40 grade oil as a 30 grade oil's viscosity will have dropped pretty low above those temps thus the fluid film strength at the bearings will be low.

For those interested, I’m happy to offer dealer wholesale prices, about 25% below retail, for forum members via the AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program. Drop me a PM if interested.
__________________


C66 Racing #66 NASA ST2, SCCA T2
AMSOIL Dealer (Forum Vendor)
AMSOIL Ordering Information (Retail sales using reference #1206638 benefit the forum.)
AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program (Members buy at Wholesale - a savings of about 25%)
AMSOIL Catalog

Old 05-17-2012, 08:41 PM
  #6  
Sidney004
Melting Slicks
 
Sidney004's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2004
Location: Castro Valley CA
Posts: 3,253
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by geerookie
You could easily lower your oil temps by 20 - 40 degrees by just changing to a good 30 weight oil.
Maybe on a lawnmower.
Old 05-19-2012, 01:32 PM
  #7  
darguy
Drifting
Thread Starter
 
darguy's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Cortes Island, BC
Posts: 1,421
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts

Default

I'm back - it's been a busy week...

Thanks for the input guys. I've got the oil cooler already, so I'll install that & see what happens to the temps. I've got fresh Mobil 1 15W-50 in it now, I'll certainly consider a change after I find out where the temp ends up with the cooler.

I'm digging into which brakes to upgrade to - I think I'll start a thread specifically on that...

Old 05-19-2012, 02:47 PM
  #8  
Paul Schmidt
Racer
 
Paul Schmidt's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2010
Location: Seattle Washington
Posts: 266
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

I'm real close to you. I live in Seattle and race with ICSCC. Right now my race car is down getting the dry sump installed. It would be great to meet up someday soon and represent Corvette and battle it out at Pacific Raceway.
Old 05-19-2012, 07:42 PM
  #9  
darguy
Drifting
Thread Starter
 
darguy's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Cortes Island, BC
Posts: 1,421
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Doug P
I'm real close to you. I live in Seattle and race with ICSCC. Right now my race car is down getting the dry sump installed. It would be great to meet up someday soon and represent Corvette and battle it out at Pacific Raceway.
That would be cool, indeed! Do you run the circuit that comes through Mission, BC? We have 3 ICSCC races there per year. I'd thought of that series as a future objective once the car is nailed down, I have more seat time running locally, and time/money permitting.

Get notified of new replies

To 2nd Race Weekend: Report & Questions




Quick Reply: 2nd Race Weekend: Report & Questions



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:41 PM.