jbondfl

Soooo, I went to Sebring last weekend for my first HPDE.
WOW!!!!! Chin Motorsports really puts on a great event. Serious fun!

So now my problem... (every has one after the first event, right?)
My car is a C5 A4 vert. It is also our weekend cruiser and show car.

I don't mind using it for what it is intended but the A4, and the Vert, and the fact that it is our show car makes me think I should choose a better option if I intend to do this more often (and I do intend to do this more often).

I'm not ready to invest in a dedicated track car yet so, I'm thinking of trading my wife's DD Pontiac G6 in for a C6 A6 with the paddle shifter. Now, I know a M6 would be faster in the long run but I'm sure the A6 will be faster than I am for at least a year or two. Since this would be the wifey's DD an A6 would be a better option for her.

Is the A6 up to the task of HPDE with the downshifting/upshifting, hard use it will see? Will it need a separate trans cooler? (The A4 gave me two DIC warnings, no light, on the last two of five 30 minute sessions at Sebring). I would have it tuned so it would shift firmer in S-mode (Chuck made my A4 shift so hard I don't allow beverages inside the car anymore ). Would that make my temps higher/lower/no effect? Can you tune them to shift UP harder and DOWN softer???

Is the C6 in stock trim as good handling (better? worse?) than the C5? I had C6Z51 sways and C6Z06 shocks on the C5 last weekend.

I had Hankook V12's on the C5 and didn't get any complaints from my instructor about tires. No spins and honestly not all that much tire noise (just on two or three turns). Never broke them loose accelerating.

I believe my lap times were about 3:07 but don't really have a reliable source. My friends were not really paying attention very well.

I'm rambling on now so,,,,,,,,,

Any thoughts for me?

95jersey

There are others who use automatics occasionally who can chime in, but eventually you are going to ruin that transmission. Teach your wife how to drive stick is a much better solution.

V4kerker

jbondfl I see you have caught the HPDE bug. I run a C6 A6 2007 base coupe which isn't base anymore. Mods are brake pads HP+, brake lines, front brake ducts and spindle ducts and the JOC stage 1 sway and shock package. I have not done anything to the drive train. Left it stock because I still have a warranty.
My last HPDE1 at VIR last week was in the 90's the trans temp only got up to 240 but the engine oil temp got as high as 290. The oil pressure at idle was 19psig. This is the weak link in my car setup right now.
As for the automatic transmission it up shifts ok but down shifting you get no engine braking. Plus on down shifts under hard braking the automatic trans won't shift until I come out of a turn while getting back on the throttle it feels seamless but your in a lower power band. I wish I had a Z51 rear end to help with passing but for just starting out I think the paddle shifting makes it easier to learn HPDE.
I'm trying to resist anymore mods other than engine oil cooler if I keep this car. In the end everybody wants a ZR1, Z06 or grand sport with Manual trans.
Hope this helps.

jbondfl

V4kerker, thanks, it helps a lot. Are you saying that, with the paddle shifter, the trans still doesn't downshift until you come out of the turn, or do you not have a paddle shifter. (that is why I wanted the paddles).

thanks

Tormania

I would add this as someone who has been to a couple events like this and thus a relative newbie as well.

I run my 2000 C5 with a MN6, but the track I have been to (Harris Hill Road) is laid out in such a fashion that I can leave the car in 3rd gear as the slowest corners are in the low 40s and the fastest straight tops out right at around 105mph. This allows me to focus on my driving line, being smooth, getting my apexes and braking points more consistent, etc. I have gotten significantly faster simply by improving my driving, no other changes. I hope to begin working on smooth downshifts into 2nd for the slowest corners to maximize getting out of the corners a bit faster.

So I would suggest getting a manual and not concern yourself with being "faster" now compared to later. As your skill improves you will get faster simply by being able to be a smoother driver. Not to mention eventually you will want to be able to have 100% control over which gear you are in and when you shift. I don't know enough about the paddle shift tranny in the C6s but I would bet they aren't designed for heavy abuse like track days, but hopefully others can weigh in on their performance in that use.

jlutherva

jbondfl, I see you are a senior member so I shouldn't have to warn you what a slippery slope this is and how it's more addictive than crack cocaine, right?

First thought - you won't have a show car long if you track it. You get lots of chips even with the 3M film.

Second thought: Spend some time thinking about how many events you can do and what your budget might be. You may be better of buying an already setup track car. If I was doing this all over again, I would have just bought the track car as soon as I realized I was hooked and saved my C6Z.

If you want to see what it costs, PM me w/ your email and I'll send you an Excel workbook that details my costs.

Jim

jbondfl

jim,
thanks but I DO NOT want to see the cost up front. Hell, I won't even look up what I've dropped on the "show car".

Thanks for the insight though. I'm not interested in dropping 20K on a car I'd use one weekend a month. I understand the logic but I'll be spending my money a couple grand at a time.

JDIllon

As mentioned before, the automatic is not a good choice for the track!! Here in Florida the heat makes it an even worse choice. Just my .02 but you would be wasting your money on an automatic C6 even with the paddle shifter it will not preform well on the track over a long period of time. It's great that you are really enthused about the sport, but please don't do what so many of us have done before you. And that is spending large amounts of money needlessly to get to where we are today with regards to a car for the track. That doesn't mean that you have to go to dedicated track car, but it does mean you have to start with something will perform well for both purposes. And an automatic will not fit that need for very long, from both a performance stand point and practical maintenance and upkeep. If in fact you really do enjoy the sport as you plan, you will be looking for another car in the very near future. Good luck with what ever you decide and hope to see you again at Sebring in the near future. I was in the orange C6-Z06 with the wing. JD

bags142

I am new to this.. I have done about 10 track weekends. 8 or so of those in my 2000 frc.

I will say this, if I was to do it over, I would buy a miata, track prepped e36 3 series or e36 m3. You can find the miata with a little track prep for $4k, the track ready e36 for $5k the e36 m3 for $6k (for $9k you can get a caged well sorted car). With these cars you can drive them and not stress about damage or having to drive it to work the next day! And they can still be driven to hpde events.

I LOVE my vette ( I tow a trailer with wheels and stuff on it behind my vette).. but, I am beating the snot out of it doing 4-5 weekends a year. And having a DD as the track car is a BAD idea. A small off track ride can cost you a week of down time just in suspension parts that may get bent without impacting any body panels.

I have a DD, my frc is my fun car.

My newb 1/2 a cent

jlutherva

I understand completely, but I'm the exact opposite. I like to know exactly what I'm getting into and the exit strategy before I decide to move ahead. I'm presently evaluating the purchase of a dedicated track car.

Jim

TorontoC6

I have been tracking a 2006 A6 Z51 for about 5 years. I purchased an A6 because I thought my wife was going to drive the car (she has not driven it in the last 3 years). The car has slowly morphed from a semi-daily driver into a track car (see profile for list of mod's). It's still street legal but for the average daily commute, it's not my favorite ride (no fun in stop and go traffic and the quality of pavement in Toronto is terrible).

If I had to do it over again, I would not purchase an A6 primarily for track, I would buy either a Grand Sport M6 or Z06 (C5 or C6).

To answer your specific questions, the A6 is ok to run on the track but you will have to add a transmission cooler (beyond the stock cooler built into the radiator). You have to monitor transmission temperature, and once it gets up to 240f, it's time for some cool down laps or time to come in. How quickly the transmission temps rises depends upon ambient air temp, how hard you are running the car and how many shifts you are making. I run only in 's' mode and use the shifters, I do not let the transmission shift for itself.

I have about done about 25 tracks days with by C6 A6 and close to 20,000 miles. I change transmission fluid and filter twice a year. It's holding up fine.

Be very careful with transmission tuning. Hard shifting is not desirable for the track as it upsets the balance of the car. I had a COW transmission tune but several instructors criticized how hard the shifts were so I had another tuner make significant changes to the tuning. No offense to Chuck, I did not ask him to tune the car for road course work. It's now a little firmer than stock but it does not slam shifts. Also, transmission temps affect how it shifts. If the transmission is cold, it seems to shift harder.

C5 versus C6, they are very similar except for C6 Z06 which is in a different class.

As for tires, the V12's are ok. Better tires for track work are RE-11's, Hankook RS-3's, and Kumho XS.

Ed

V4kerker

Yes jbondfl but only under hard braking from 130mph plus. I bought my C6 used in 2009 with 13k on it and it has 49k on it now. So far its been alot of fun on the track.
Here's a video of my car at my last HPDE. Go to the 15 minute point of the video and I had a Blown G8 in tow for about 15 minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmHxomb1XFo

yakisoba

We tracked my wife's C5 A4 for a while. Installed a deeper trans pan and a cooler to do it. We also tuned the trans adn it shifted well enough, for an auto. Ultimately, she took it back as a DD and we got her a standard C5 FRC. It's been a great track car.

JeremyGSU

Buy a used C5 Z06. Teach your wife to drive stick. Hit the track.

Best bang for the buck right there.

J

0Chuck CoW

Hey there Ed.....

What we need to do is get you an AutoCal device.

This way you can have your KICK *** street tune when you want it and when you go to the

track or HPDE events, we can tune the trans differently so that you can always have the best of both worlds.

Call me any time and I'll tell you about it....

914-332-0049
Chuck CoW

blkbrd69

I run with NASA and PBOC at Sebring, next NASA event is in 5 days. Still spots open!

Look up my posts and you can see all I have done to make my A6 stay cool on the track, huge cooler with ducting through foglight as well as a DeWitts radiator and cooler.

Stays cool on track and out runs equel drivers in GT3's, Z06's still stomp me down the back straight. I am able to corner harder and out accelerate most standards while shifting in sweepers like turn 6.

Working with chuck to find the perfect road course A6 tune.

But as to the long term durability?????? If I were to buy another car it would be an standard Z06 or GS. I did the same as others and bought a car my wife would enjoy but she likes track days now and understands the need for a standard.