Accusump quit working - EPC valve?
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Accusump quit working - EPC valve?
I am assuming that is what it is seeing most eventually have the same issue. Mine has only been in less than 15 months. It has worked great for pre lubing and I assume it has worked for track days even though my oil pressure rarely gets below 35lbs. Any other issue I should persue? Not going to waste another $189 for electric, just going to work out a way to use the manual valve.
#2
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Beaverton OR
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Many people ( including me) have had this problem. A manual valve is the final solution, one just has to remember to turn it on and off at the correct times.
#3
Pro
Could it be that the pressure switch it bad? Seems like you could check it with a volt meter. Have the engine off and turn on the accusump system. If there the voltage is zero going out of the pressure switch and into the valve, then the switch is bad.
Or could there be a leak and you've lost the pressure on the air side of the accusump cylinder?
Or could there be a leak and you've lost the pressure on the air side of the accusump cylinder?
#4
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Air guage still show ~50bls iirc. If you could show me where to test the switch I will. I am not really good with the electrical thing.
With toggle switch on, I put the red probe on the Pressure switch terminal going to the EPC valve and ground the other end. If voltage is zero, then the pressure switch is bad - correct?
Has anyone ever taken EPC valve apart to see where the weak link is and if it is repairable. I just looked on Canton site and valve is now $242. $90 for remote manual kit.
With toggle switch on, I put the red probe on the Pressure switch terminal going to the EPC valve and ground the other end. If voltage is zero, then the pressure switch is bad - correct?
Has anyone ever taken EPC valve apart to see where the weak link is and if it is repairable. I just looked on Canton site and valve is now $242. $90 for remote manual kit.
#6
Burning Brakes
could be the hose
I am assuming that is what it is seeing most eventually have the same issue. Mine has only been in less than 15 months. It has worked great for pre lubing and I assume it has worked for track days even though my oil pressure rarely gets below 35lbs. Any other issue I should persue? Not going to waste another $189 for electric, just going to work out a way to use the manual valve.
#7
Pro
1.) The wire from your in car toggle switch should go to one side of the pressure switch. The first test would be to turn the switch on, then measure the voltage at the terminal of the pressure switch to which your in car toggle switch is attached. Yes, measure it to ground. This will tell you if the pressure switch is getting 12 volts. Maybe a fuse is blown somewhere or there is a bad connection so it isn't getting power. You should be able to do this with the car on or off but just have the toggle switch controlling the accusump on.
2.) If you passed the step above, then the pressure switch is getting power but now you want to know if it is working. Leave the car off but turn on the toggle switch inside the car. Check the voltage between ground and the other terminal of the pressure switch. This other terminal should be connected to the accusump valve. The idea is that with the car off, your oil pressure is zero and so the pressure switch should be giving the valve power to open and dump oil.
Hopefully this makes sense.
#8
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Yes it did - thanks. I flipped the toggle switch to test pressure switch and I heard the damn thing click on and dump the oil into the block. This is after not working for the past week. If I didn't need to dump sump to change the oil, I would be pissed. Needless to say, pressure switch had 12.1 volts on incoming side and 10.87 on side going to EPC valve. Calling Canton tomorrow to see which direction to go now. Thanks for the help.
#9
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Just got off the phone with the tech guy at Canton. He says contrary to popular misconception, they have few problems with the EPC valve or the pressure switch. He says there is just nothing to go wrong with the EPC valve, that if there is an issue, it is the pressure switch so I am to send it to him to check out. I did notice my air pressure was 0lbs this morning, and Canton says is should be 7-10lbs. Not sure if it matters, but I am going to reset the prechage tonight and try that before I tear stuff apart.
#10
Race Director
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Deal's Gap 2004 NCM Motorsports track supporter
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I have noticed that my electrical switch works as it should when the oil is cold. I see the engine gauge build pressure but when it gets hot after a session the switch makes a 'clunk' but no oil pressure shows on the engine gauge. I have a manual switch on order now to simplify the whole unit, hopefully.
#12
Race Director
Just got off the phone with the tech guy at Canton. He says contrary to popular misconception, they have few problems with the EPC valve or the pressure switch. He says there is just nothing to go wrong with the EPC valve, that if there is an issue, it is the pressure switch so I am to send it to him to check out. I did notice my air pressure was 0lbs this morning, and Canton says is should be 7-10lbs. Not sure if it matters, but I am going to reset the prechage tonight and try that before I tear stuff apart.
Last edited by GeorgeZNJ; 06-25-2012 at 09:03 PM.
#13
Anyone experiencing this issue please call us direct. We are performing a ton of tests to diagnose the issues you guys may be experiencing. This is not a common issue but We would like to solve the issue before sending new switches out as warranties in case this happens again.
Anyone who is experiencing an issue, i ask to please contact me so i can get the switch in here for evaluation.
203-481-9460
Thank you
Nick Ansaldi
Canton Racing Products
Anyone who is experiencing an issue, i ask to please contact me so i can get the switch in here for evaluation.
203-481-9460
Thank you
Nick Ansaldi
Canton Racing Products
#14
Burning Brakes
have lost confidence in this set up
Anyone experiencing this issue please call us direct. We are performing a ton of tests to diagnose the issues you guys may be experiencing. This is not a common issue but We would like to solve the issue before sending new switches out as warranties in case this happens again.
Anyone who is experiencing an issue, i ask to please contact me so i can get the switch in here for evaluation.
203-481-9460
Thank you
Nick Ansaldi
Canton Racing Products
Anyone who is experiencing an issue, i ask to please contact me so i can get the switch in here for evaluation.
203-481-9460
Thank you
Nick Ansaldi
Canton Racing Products
#15
Drifting
Just got off the phone with the tech guy at Canton. He says contrary to popular misconception, they have few problems with the EPC valve or the pressure switch. He says there is just nothing to go wrong with the EPC valve, that if there is an issue, it is the pressure switch so I am to send it to him to check out. I did notice my air pressure was 0lbs this morning, and Canton says is should be 7-10lbs. Not sure if it matters, but I am going to reset the prechage tonight and try that before I tear stuff apart.
#16
Burning Brakes
what's up?
Anyone experiencing this issue please call us direct. We are performing a ton of tests to diagnose the issues you guys may be experiencing. This is not a common issue but We would like to solve the issue before sending new switches out as warranties in case this happens again.
Anyone who is experiencing an issue, i ask to please contact me so i can get the switch in here for evaluation.
203-481-9460
Thank you
Nick Ansaldi
Canton Racing Products
Anyone who is experiencing an issue, i ask to please contact me so i can get the switch in here for evaluation.
203-481-9460
Thank you
Nick Ansaldi
Canton Racing Products
What about you Canton?
#17
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Talked to Nick at Canton yesterday. He says the issue is not in the pressure switch, but in the EPC valve. Their EPC supplier had changed the voltage(?) and it was heating up the contact on the pressure switch causing a carbon deposit which caused the switch to work intermittently (my best MIB explanation). He is returning my switch along with a different coil to replace in the EPC valve. Hopefully he will post the detailed explanation. Looks like progress.
#18
Talked to Nick at Canton yesterday. He says the issue is not in the pressure switch, but in the EPC valve. Their EPC supplier had changed the voltage(?) and it was heating up the contact on the pressure switch causing a carbon deposit which caused the switch to work intermittently (my best MIB explanation). He is returning my switch along with a different coil to replace in the EPC valve. Hopefully he will post the detailed explanation. Looks like progress.
At that time, I personally researched the issue and tested all of the valves as well as contacted both the sensor company as well as the valve company. During this time i tested amperage, resistance, etc.
Basically what we found was this:
About 1.5 years ago we changed valves from the green top Goyen valve made in AUS to a local company. The valves operated the exact same and the newer valve had a better look as well as they were lighter. One thing that was not disclosed to us was that the wattage for the coil actually had doubled from the Goyen from 9W-12V to 15.4W-12V. After calling the sensor company we found that the sensors max operating amperage is .8A . That lead us right to the problem.
The New coil at 15.4W was pulling 1.23A which was causing a semi short in the pressure switch. The Goyen was a 9W which was pulling .7A which was right under tolerance.
After finding this out, I contacted our valve company and they provided us with a 9W coil. This coil only requires 9V to operate but is rated for 12V.
For those of you who would like cliffs..
Cliffs:
Current valves coil pulling too much amperage for pressure switch.
New coils have been tested and are at the correct amperage.
All of our valves have been equipped with the new coils and i am currently waiting on a batch of coils to send out as replacements to those in the field who are experiencing this issue.
Anyone who is experiencing these issues, please contact me at info@cantonracingproducts.com or Racing.canton@gmail.com
Or call me direct at 203-481-9943.
Thank you
Nick Ansaldi
#19
Le Mans Master
Here is a compliment to CantonNick for his informative and forthright
post, not to mention the leg work undertaken to assess and resolve
the EPC issue.
I do not come around often anymore, but I have made some posts
about Canton in the past. This appears to be a new attitude and
I feel it is overdue for acknowledgement.
.
post, not to mention the leg work undertaken to assess and resolve
the EPC issue.
I do not come around often anymore, but I have made some posts
about Canton in the past. This appears to be a new attitude and
I feel it is overdue for acknowledgement.
.
#20
Le Mans Master
FWIW, another approach may be to add a relay to the EPC circuit.
Instead of passing current through the EPC sensor to activate the
valve's solonoid, have the EPC sensor switch activate a relay and
have the current required to operate the solonoid carried through
the relay's contacts.
The switching side of a relay (85 & 86) requires very little current
draw to pull the main contacts together (30 & 87.) Once the contacts
close, this side of the relay can carry whatever current the relay is
rated for: usually 20A and up ...
An SPST, NO relay (Single Pull Single Throw, Normally Open) with a
20A load capacity is one suggestion.
Hella offers relays suitable for automotive use that come in a variety
of form factors. The style below has a integral mounting tab and
the case measures approximately 1" x 1" x 1".
Other versions without tabs are intended for use in a plug-in
a single or multiple receptacle/base. Some have cases with
interlocking segments on the sides so multiple relays can be ganged
together, some have skirts for weatherproofing, some have integral
fuses.
Without a doubt, adding a relay increases complexity, cost and even
weight - going against the K.I.S.S. principal. However, in some
situations, the benefits may be judged to outweigh the drawbacks.
.
Instead of passing current through the EPC sensor to activate the
valve's solonoid, have the EPC sensor switch activate a relay and
have the current required to operate the solonoid carried through
the relay's contacts.
The switching side of a relay (85 & 86) requires very little current
draw to pull the main contacts together (30 & 87.) Once the contacts
close, this side of the relay can carry whatever current the relay is
rated for: usually 20A and up ...
An SPST, NO relay (Single Pull Single Throw, Normally Open) with a
20A load capacity is one suggestion.
Hella offers relays suitable for automotive use that come in a variety
of form factors. The style below has a integral mounting tab and
the case measures approximately 1" x 1" x 1".
Other versions without tabs are intended for use in a plug-in
a single or multiple receptacle/base. Some have cases with
interlocking segments on the sides so multiple relays can be ganged
together, some have skirts for weatherproofing, some have integral
fuses.
Without a doubt, adding a relay increases complexity, cost and even
weight - going against the K.I.S.S. principal. However, in some
situations, the benefits may be judged to outweigh the drawbacks.
.