jvp

Hey kids -

I'm thinking about grabbing a camber kit from one of our vendors and putting it on my ZR1. I understand the benefits of doing so: more negative camber than is possible with the factory setup, as well as quick changes to said camber without the need for another alignment. Those are good things.

What about the bad? Are there any? Am I, at some point along the way, going to say to myself, "Dammit, I wish I hadn't done that because of... X?" I can't think of any reason why that'd be the case, but then: I don't have any experience with the kits. So what do you think?

jas

BEZ06

Hi Jas

First off - I don't have said camber kit, but I was considering one as well, so am just giving my thoughts, not experience.

Second - any time you change camber you will need to adjust toe. So, it's quick and easy to change camber with washers or shims on the upper control arm mounts, but it adds a little time to also adjust toe each time.

If you'll be swapping from street to track and back, once you know what it takes to go from one to the other it's very quick, but doing the first setup (and checking it occasionally) is more like a full alignment.

Once you know what it takes to switch, it's just a matter of removing replacing washers/shims and adjusting a certain # of flats on your tie-rods and doesn't take long at all.

I quit running Hoosiers so I'm not resetting camber every time I switch from street to track tires - I'm just running an aggressive street alignment and street tires for both the street and track.


Are you having problems with your eccentric cam bolts slipping?


I never adjusted camber with them - I only adjust it by removing/replacing the washers/shims on the upper control arms. On our Z06/ZR1 suspensions, the rear is just like the front and I never touched the lower eccentric bolts and never have had any problem with them slipping.

I believe the Pfadt kit contains the plates to remove the lower eccentrics and you replace them with the plates to lock the lower control arms in place, and it also contains the studs to replace the bolts for the uppers, as well as a bunch of shims to adjust the camber via the upper control arms.

From HardBar, you can get just the studs without buying the the plate kit to lock the lowers in place, or you can buy the combo kit for both lower and upper control arms.

If I get anything I'm just going with the studs for the upper control arms because I'm not having any problems with the OE eccentric cam bolt setup.

I'd get the studs to avoid the potential problem of stripping out the threads in the frame from removing those upper control arm bolts so often.

Bottom line - I know of no negatives to going with a camber kit, but you may just need a stud kit if you're not having problems with the lower eccentrics.

Also, you will need to adjust toe every time you adjust camber.

Bob

jvp

ACK! I didn't realize that, Bob. If that's the case, then this project is dead before it starts. I'm not going to attempt to navigate this in my garage each time because if there's any possible way to f**k it up, I'm just the man for the job.

Nope, I want more negative camber for my Rs so I can keep a better contact patch through the corners. My tires are howling like banshees as I plowwwwww my way through corners; I'm just not getting enough grip up front. Negative camber will help there, but I can't leave it that way permanently since I drive my ZR1 on the street with OEM run-flats.

Yep, PFadt was #1 on the list of potentials. LG #2. Hadn't considered HardBar.

I think I'd be more comfortable with the eccentrics gone, so I'm OK with buying a whole kit. But if toe also has to be changed each time, uh... no. Not going there.

jas

Poor-sha

Jas, setting the toe really isn't a big deal. I used to swap pads, rotors, and change the alignment before and after each event. All you need for the toe are a couple wrenches and some cheap toe plates.

Only once did I screw this up because I went the wrong way on one if the tie rods and ended up with the steering wheel crooked. It took me a couple trips down the road to get everything back right.

Bill Dearborn

Adjusting toe isn't that hard and all you have to do is have the car up in the air so you can gain access to the tie rods which you have to do to change the shims. If you don't do your own alignments buy the full camber kit from one of the suppliers mentioned and install it your self and then get an appointment to get an alignment. You want somebody who will work with you and who understands the job will be different because there are no eccentrics. Have them set up two alignments for track and street and make notes of the number of shims used and the locations of the shims for each setup. If you want to end up with the street alignment when you leave the shop have them do the track one first. When they set the toe have them mark each tie rod with a specific color (I use bright red and green) cheap finger nail polish (holds up well). I use the red color for the track settings. When they change over to the street settings by inserting shims at the LCAs have them count the number of flats they turn each tie rod and in what direction to get proper street toe and thrust angle. I mark those locations with green marks. Then it is just a matter of changing the shims and counting the number of flats turned between settings on the tie rods. This isn't exactly accurate since there are no close reference points to line up your color markings but is close enough for a few changes. If you buy some toe plates (including two tape measures) off from eBay for $50 you can tweak the toe and thrust angle every 4th or 5th change to get back on the correct toe settings. Once you get used to doing the changes they can be done very quickly. LG and one of his guys did a quick rear toe adjustment on my car at the Glen a couple of years ago in the time it took me to eat a 6 inch Subway sandwich.

Bill

SLandstra_Z06

Jas,

The way the lock-out kits work is that a machined block goes into the bottom control arm which locks the lower control arm in a position to provide maximum negative camber (Something like 4 degrees with no washers or spacers behind the upper dog bones)

Then to obtain a lesser amount of camber (2 3/4 to 3 degrees) you have to push the upper control arm out by adding shims or washers between the frame and the upper control arm. This accomplishes two things - a wider track (good thing) and it pushes the top of the tire out toward the edge of the fender. The more shims/washers you add to reduce camber, the further the top of the wheel/tire is pushed out.

What I noticed is that with 11 inch wide CCW wheels and Hoosier 315/30 ZR18 front tires, I was getting contact between the edge of the fender and the shoulder of the Hoosier. This only occured when the suspension was compressed under hard braking coming into an uphill section or at the bottom of a hill such as the hog pen at VIR. I ended up having the ride height raised on my car and I have eliminated the rubbing now.

I bring this up as an FYI to be aware of, depending on your ride height. I hope this makes sense.

Steve

jvp

Steve -

I appreciate that, and thanks, it does make perfect sense. I was concerned about contact given what you wrote (I'd thought through the whole install already). I run 275 or 295x18s in the front for the track, and the stock 285x19s on the street; ride height is stock. Given that, I'm not sure if the risk of contact is as high with my setup as it would have been with your 315s.

jas

SLandstra_Z06

I have a set of stock wheels with 295/30 ZR18 fronts, and have zero rubbing with them. So, I think you're good to go with tires up to 295.

varkwso

It is difficult to get even camber on rear with the camber blocks due to cradle "drift". One eccentric makes it easier.

BEZ06

Jas

Adjusting toe isn't difficult at all. Like Bill says, mark your tie-rods and you can easily count flats and go from street to track and back quickly.

I think it's the Pfadt install instructions that say a 1mm shim will change camber 0.2 degrees.

I just went and measured the thickness of 3 OE washers and they are 7.2mm, so about 1.44 degrees of camber.

And that's about exactly what I used to get when I set up Hoosiers. Up front I went from street camber of 1.2* to track of 2.7 by removing 3 washers.

In the rear I went from 1* to 1.7 by removing 2 washers.

When going from street to track camber the toe was way toe-out up front, and toe-in at the rear.

Up front the tie-rods are in front of the wheels, so to correct the toe-out I had to TIGHTEN the tie-rods by 9 flats (on the hex bolts 6 flats is one full rotation - so 1-1/2 turns) to get my track toe setting.

In the rear the toe adjusters are behind the wheels, so to correct the excess toe-in problem I also had to TIGHTEN the rods by 4 flats.

When going back to street I just installed the washers (3 up front and 2 in the rear), released the jam nut on the tie-rods and loosened/extended the tie-rods by 9 flats each side up front and 4 flats in the rear - it really only takes a few minutes!!!

It's really something that you should easily and quickly be able to do if you would already be doing washers/shims for the camber.

Bob

Pfadt Racing

If you're going to be swapping out blocks on camber plates anyway resetting the toe probably won't be that big of a deal. Setting up the camber kit does take a little bit of work initially, but once you've got your setup dialed in and know how many plates to take out to hit your desired settings it's really easy to tune. After that be sure to reset your toe properly again and it should be good to go!

jvp

Can you elaborate on this? What do you mean?

jas

varkwso

The rear cradle is rarely exactly plumb and square. Without any adjustment it makes it tougher to correct. Typically the passenger side ends up with less camber then the driver side.