taken19

In my quest to figure out why I was having AH issues, I recently discovered that I actually had toe out (on the order of 5/8"!) during my last track day. I must have been so flustered trying to chase the problem that I wasn't looking at the inches and only focusing on the 1/23 increments. It must have happened during the camber kit swap. Read below for more information.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...-opinions.html

Could this have been the cause all along? Notice the pics of the rear tire wear (a dead ringer for toe out) in the pics. Would the significant toe out have made the car so unstable that AH would have engaged for the entire corner? How could I have been so stupid...

Any input is appreciated.

froggy47

Rear toe out of any amount is IMO the worst possible mistake in alignment and makes for a very unstable car.



I think I touched on that in post #11 in your other thread.

Kubs

Toe out would make it very very loose and hard to predict. Not to mention 5/8" is a LOT!

taken19

I must be the world's worst mechanic! I guess feeling hurried led to make the rookie mistake of looking at the hash marks between the inches and not looking at the actual inch value. I setup the car for the track between 13 hour shifts and had very little time to check and recheck like I usually do. Family duty didn't help much either...

I know that rear toe out makes for an unstable car and this may confirm that, coupled with the inside edges of the rear tires wearing significantly.

Man, I really need to get my head out of my butt and give a track setup the time it deserves.

froggy47

You won't do it again, we all slip up on occasion. But something you are going to pilot @ 150 or so with others around needs good focus when it's prepped.

When I go on track with others I am always thinking, is my car right & what about everyone else? Did they (or their mechanic) do a great job or did they have a bad day. Makes ya think.

taken19

You are absolutely right. I have a 4 year old who clings to me like velcro wen I'm around. Makes it tough to get anything done around the house or the track.

I don't normally make mistakes like that, but it is certain that I won't do that again!!!

db2xpert

Another item to add to the checklist.

Now where did I put that darn list.....

2MCHPWR

i had 1/8 toe out and it was a wasted weekend with lots of spins. Aim for 1/8 toe in.

Kubs

Dont be hard on yourself, people make mistakes. At least you knew where to start looking for the issue!

froggy47

taken19

I guess so. It was killing me the past couple days to not find the "smoking gun". I've been chasing ideas like thrust angle, steering wheel position, EBCM unit, etc in an attempt to figure this out. Yesterday I figured I would measure one last time before touching anything just to be sure I know what I'm starting with. When I measured the rear, I had to measure twice to be sure (actually had a few minuted to focus without my Velcro, lol). I was so amazed, I actually said "I'm an idiot" out loud. Not my ego has a pretty good size bruise, but it will heal - it always does.

Good lesson learned...

sothpaw2

Just for the benefit of everyone with a check list, am I right in thinking that one can visually SEE that much toe?

I know the body work on Corvettes is not that accurate, but I don't think they stink. When I stand over the wheel and look how it lines up with the body...I can see my toe in (per spec last time it was aligned) for the rear wheels. Front looks a little toe out but is supposedly zero toe.

froggy47

I think I can see/judge camber pretty well, but toe, not so much. FWIW.

cruzin2

The only intensional toe out I have ever put into a car is for the front for an autocross c5z06 that we ran one year to get better corner transitions. It worked well for that car on a very tight course. of course it was a little scary to drive on the roads at speed.

I bought a used C6 Z06 and found that it also had a little toe out in the rear and it almost wrecked me on an highway entrance ramp. Thank god for the nanies. saved my bacon. I also did not know what the problem was until I decided for other reasons to add camber to the front and found I was .5 toe out in the rear! car was completely different after this fix.

I wouldn't beat yourself up for it too bad. Glad you made the change and its wont be a mistake you make again!

Good luck.

taken19

Yes, I even asked two guys at the track with me. It looked like toe out to me but they either weren't interested or couldn't tell. When I measured again, I missed the inch markings (72"-xx vs 73"-xx) since I literally had 2 minutes until my session began. I should have slowed down just a second to see what was slapping me in the face...

taken19

I agree. Anything less than 3/8" toe is gonna be real tough to see.

Rob31

I just picked up some toe Plates on fleabay 40.00 . Cant buy the material for that .

Painrace

It is called "Toe Steer" when you have rear toe out and that is exactly what happens.

Jim

jtmck

No,
You can see 1/16 toe trust on the rear.

Stoop down behind the car....sight in the rear tire sidewall to the front tire sidewall. A 1/16 difference at the rear equals .259 at the front.
If you see a quarter inch difference from one side of the car to the other on the front tire, that is 1/16 of an inch on the rear tire.

jtmck

Damn computer did not let me finish

These sightings do not set the toe. It only tells you if the thrust is off.
If your toe is correct, it lets you check it in an instant.

Sorry for the spelling above.