moespeeds

My outer tie rod ends in the rear are shot (C5 FRC). So I ordered a set of performance tie rod ends from Ecklers. I plan on marking where the old rods were installed, verifying the new ends are exactly the same size, then re-installing. Seems simple enough. Anything I'm missing here?

I've had the hubs off/on so I know the procedure for getting them apart, just making sure there isn't something else I need to worry about.

Thanks!

froggy47

I'd still do a toe alignment.



Both ends

shakedown067

sperkins

You can't count the number of turns or mark the inner rod when replacing stock tie rod ends with Ecklers units as they are longer than stock.
Best thing you can do is measure from the cradle at the inner tie rod to the end of the outer tie rod and screw the new one to that measurement. That will get you close, but you'll have to set your toe after it's all said and done.

moespeeds

I'd love to do a toe alignment, but the parts are coming Thursday, and I leave for the track Friday (and I'm working both days) so I won't have the time. BTW Froggy I watched your alignment video it's great, thanks for the effort. Where do you measure off the front to get the string parallel? Are the front and rear axles exactly the same distance from the center-line of the car? What's a good toe for a track only car? Pftadt coilovers, sway bars, poly bushings, running conti slicks 18 square.

moespeeds

What if I punch mark the rear end of the hub, then measure back to a hard part like the frame. Think that will get me close enough to get through the weekend?

froggy47

Unless the rod ends are really shot, I would not rush this job or call it close enough.

If you are off on rear toe at best you will ruin a pair of tires or at worst stuff the car into some place you were not intending it to go.

It doesn't take much rear toe out to turn a nice car into an evil handling B%%%%.

The strings are held parallel by the precision made rods provided by smart strings, there are grooves cut in the rods that hold the strings in parallel position. If you don't have smart strings you need to measure the distance from left string to right string and make sure it's held static (don't BUMP it)

set the strings (with a lot of patience & precision) equi distant off the axle stub ends while keeping them parallel. An assumption is that these axle stub ends are equi distant from the centerline of the car.

I know how to do it off centerline but it's more work with the car not on an alignment rack.

Once you are sure your axles & subframes are good (off the frame centerline) you can do your alignment from there with confidence until you wreck the car, then you need to start at centerline.


Your "proof" will be handling & tire wear.

moespeeds

Well I don't really know the definition of "bad". The left tie rod is loose enough to allow about 3/32 of slop in the hub. I popped it and reset it, no joy. The right side "clicks" but has little perceptible slop, but I figured I'd just do both. I ran the car all last season on the settings the previous owner had on there, but I never checked anything. Getting it over to Phoenix for a track alignment is on my short list, but couldn't get to it before this first event. So I guess my question is, leave the bad rods in there for this weekend, or change them out and risk a bad toe setting. I really don't see why I can't just mark each hub, measure to an immovable point on the car, replace the tie rods, then just adjust the mark back to my measurement?

trackboss

Just my opinion. Replace the bad parts and set the toe correctly. If for whatever reason you cannot do both wait until you can before going to the track. The last thing you want is a problem with rear toe on the track. Front is not as big a deal, but rear you can destroy your whole car and possibly others around you.
I personally would not want anyone around me on track that is unwilling to correctly prep their cars.

moespeeds

Does rear toe change over the course of suspension travel?

sperkins

To just say yes would be an understatement.

spazegun2213

Weird question, does anyone make rear tie rods that are bent a little to accommodate coil overs?

sperkins

Rear bump steer kit is about the only way I know of unless you get smaller dia coil springs.
You still have to relocate the inner with the kit. I'll see if I can dig up a picture.

Falcon

Doggone Scott, do you stay up at night studying this stuff?

I admire your inquiring mind, an dedication to task!

sperkins

Actually that graph is a bit misleading. The droop looks horrific, but some of that has to do with the whole suspension moving through it's arch. As the wheel drops, the whole assy moves closer to the frame which makes it look like it's toeing in massively when in fact it's changing track width at the same time if that makes sense. Regardless, the toe change whatever it may be exactly isn't good.

dbratten

I may have missed it but don't fail to check thrust angle. You don't want the rear heading off in its own direction.

You can easily set toe with a tape measure and be close enough. I use a laser to set thrust angle ala David Farmer method.

--Dan

moespeeds

Thanks guys, so any measurements I take will have to be duplicated from the same point in the suspension travel.

Bill Dearborn

I set my toe with two toe plates and two tape measures. Just make sure the toe plates are kicked out at the bottom so they aren't affected by the tire bulge. Measure your toe and adjust until you get the setting you want. Then use a laser level (I use a two ft Sears Laser Level) to adjust your thrust angle. Have a helper hold a tape measure to the center of the front hub and lie the laser level along the rear wheel/tire and adjust it so the laser is hitting the tape measure. The helper reads the spot on the tape and then you repeat on the other side. You want the thrust angle as close to 0 as you can get so the two measurements should be very close to the same. Alternately adjust the tie rods for toe and thrust to get both measurements to what you want. Each time you make an adjustment mover the car back and forth 10 feet to settle it. The last movement should be forward. If you have 2/32 of toe but the thrust angle off to one side or the other you will need to adjust the toe of one rear tire out and the toe of the other rear tire in equal amounts until the thrust angle is what you want. Since you are making the thrust measurement over a distance of 100 inches the angles are very small so you don't have to be dead nuts on as very small movements of the rear tire will make fairly large movements of the laser spot 100 inches away.

If you don't have time to buy some toe plates you can make some from straight wood. Say a piece of 1x6 ~ 30 inches long with 2 marks located on the board to locate the tape measures. The 2 marks on each board should be 12 inches from the center of the respective board and the so called bottom of the board should be notched in the center to allow room for the tire bulge. Once they are cut and marked you and a helper can make the toe measurements by placing/holding each board firmly against the tire/wheel so it rests on the tire and is parallel with the tire. Use your hands to hold each tape measures. Tape measures should marked in 1/32 increments.

I use metal toe plates that I purchased from on of the motor sports vendors. I center them on the center of the hub and use old brake rotors to hold them in place.

Bill

sperkins

Yes. If you don't have a set of toe plates, just make your own.
I've been using this for years with perfect results.

Bill Dearborn

Another way to skin a cat. Two levels would get you around finding straight boards. All materials available at the nearest home center.

Bill