RedLS1GTO

A brief backstory. I am on a fairly limited budget but very limited time. I work full time and get to the track when I can. I had a track only (not streetable) '96 Corvette and then switched over to an '02Z. The Z06 was my daily driver for years and is currently what I would consider a hybrid track/street car. It has the seats, harness bar, AP brakes, oil cooler, LG coils, sway bars, etc.

Unfortunately, as it sits, it is good at neither street nor track. Performance wise, it is ok on the track but safety wise I am not happy with it. I see speeds in the 150+ range at some tracks and simply put, I'm not a fan of doing that without a cage. I am currently only running HPDE when I can but would like to get back to doing TT eventually when time allows. I am at the crossroads of turning it into a track car - adding trans/diff coolers, more safety equipment, etc or leaving it as a street car.

To throw a wrench into the equation, I found what looks to be a pretty awesome price on a mid 90's Thunderchicken Winston Cup car. Not a huge Ford fan, but...

It started life as a short track car but has since been straightened up and is set up for road course racing. It has a detuned Roush Cup engine ~600hp, new dry sump system, diff cooler, almost brand new Roush road racing transmission (<1 year old), good looking Wilwood brakes, etc. From what I can find, parts are easy to get and pretty cheap with the exception of the engine itself.

I am not out to set lap records, but I want a fun to drive, RELIABLE, HPDE/TT car. The main reason I got out of the '96 was that the damned thing broke something every time it went out. For the love of God, someone talk me out of it and give me a reason to stay with the Corvettes.

ScaryFast

I can't seem to wrap my head around it personally, but getting an old ASA car seems to be the big move these days. There are at least 4 people on this forum, and two others I know locally that have done the switch and never looked back. It's so much cheaper in the long run and probably faster.

I can't seem to do it, though, and keep buying more Corvettes. Mostly so I can swap parts around between them...

spazegun2213

Well that is easy.. just buy my race car!! dead nuts reliable, cheap (asking 20K) and I might even take your current Z in trade.

Parts are readily available and I have a ton of spares.

I donno that I'd ever get an ASA car. Sure they are fast, cheap and reliable, but they are not "real" cars. Anyone can make a tube frame car fast.

RedLS1GTO

Details? PM if you want. I'm open to all options at this point...

I looked at ASA cars and quite simply put, they just don't do it for me.

bosco022

If you are gonna do a stock car, go for the ASA or a road race late model stock car. The old cup cars without high end motors cannot run with a good ASA car, are about 800 pounds heavier and burn down parts quicker as a result. If you crash one they are much more expensive to repair versus the ASA type.

If it is the stock car body of the ASA that bothers you they can be made into Camaro's

RedLS1GTO

The particular 1 I am looking at does have a fresh Roush/Yates engine and trans in it. I haven't gotten into the details of weight on it yet. Hopefully I will know a little more about it in the near future.

You are correct that the bodies on the ASA cars are a big part of it. I'm not out for setting lap records. I'm in it for fun only and a part of that for me is the "cool" factor of the car. Since it is going to be sitting in the garage most of the time, I like to be able to admire a little when I walk past. Simply put, despite being capable of some fantastic performance, to me the ASA cars score about 0 as far as "cool" factor. Yea, I know I am "that guy" (and I'm OK with it ). If I was looking to be competative it would be a different story.

Tell me more about the Camaro bodies. Who is putting those out? Cost? The car in your picture has potential for sure.

brkntrxn

Personally, I have YET to see a stock car of any type make it through a complete weekend without some kind of work. Just my observations as a racer, instructor, and grid worker.

RedLS1GTO

Really? Over the years (I'm guessing not as often at the track as you) my observations have been the complete opposite... and are a big reason in even considering the switch. Even just a couple of weeks ago at VIR (when it was brutal hot) there were a couple of ASA cars, a former Cup car, and even an older body Craftsman truck running around that I was parked next to. I made it a point to go talk with all of them and the consensus seemed to be that if you could keep the engines together, they were pretty bulletproof. If you actually did break something (again excluding engine) replacement parts were pretty cheap, although obviously not available at the local parts store. I didn't see a single issue from any of them all weekend.

Unfortunately the same could not be said for the 2 C5Zs we brought that really didn't like the heat.

rfn026

If it's a short track car walk away. There's almost no chance it will ever be right for road courses. I know. I used to own a short track car. We turned it into a reasonably good road race car but there was only so much that could be done.

The guys who built the car had tricks that you'll never totally understand. They twist the chassis and run different wheelbases on the right an left side. That's just for starters. There are people who can fix all this but it'll cost you more than you paid for the car.

Now if you can find a road race car jump on it. Right now.

Richard Newton
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C5inWV

PM sent

Webz

I run an ASA car and it has been way more reliable and faster than the C5 and C6 I ran. That's just been my experience.

When I was investigating stockcars I found the same things Bosco referenced (on former cup cars) PLUS the requirement for relatively frequent freshening of the motor. The speed, LS1 motor, cheap consumables and general beefy nature of the build led me to the ASA model.

dfinke23

Any issue with rear tire wear on these considering there is no camber adjustment? Also what size wheels and tires do most guys run on these? Anyone running 18" with Hoosiers or Michelin slicks?

RX-Ben

I think your only choice is balloon style bias plys, but I am probably wrong.

Jack Roush once said that a NASCAR vehicle is basically what you would get if you sat down a designer and asked him/her to design the worst racing car ever (or something to that effect). Monster power (and engine cost), monster weight, tiny tires, archaic suspension tech, etc. Not to diminish the boundaries those guys push within their ruleset, but if you are going to go have fun on a weekend, kind of makes dumping some $ into a C5 look like a good idea.
I will never forget a weekend at Mid-O where some guys running Nastrucks went through 3 engines in ~4 sessions over a few days (so multiple late night engines swaps). Obviously an outlier, but left an impression.

bosco022

The Camaro and Mustang look bodies are built by Howe Racing. Same body as used in Trans Am 2 class. They are about 4500 with lexan windows plus shipping.

Howe makes dedicated road course chassis for these and late model stock cars. They are about 3000 for a bare chassis and it is a nice piece and they make everything to bolt on it. Look at the performance of the TA2 cars with only about 500 HP. Crazy speed for dollar spent.

The car depicted above was built at Bemco in Fl by Woody Wood. He used a Howe road race late model chassis that was left over from a PRI show car. This type chassis is used in the European DNRT road race stock car series and is similar to the Trans Am 2 chassis. It uses 16" SCCA GT-1 wheels and rubber.

Woody has converted at least 3 ASA type Monte Carlo's to Camaro's. This was not hard for him. In addition he has built ground up chassis for these types.

My C6 "Woody" Corvette is similar to a Howe road race chassis and utilizes the same type drive train but with 18" CCW's and either take off GA conti's or Pirelli WC tires. Performance is similar to a TA2 type car, only problem is the driver is getting slower.

Woody is just finishing up a TA2 type Mustang with LS3 for a S Florida Club racer. It will be for PBOC, NASA, and SCCA club races. There is another Howe Mustang body sitting in his shop.

His next project is a tube frame C6 Z06 with built LS3, Jerico tranny, coilover 3 link with watts link suspension. The body is a race weight, stock appearing Z06 body except for louvered fenders and hood. About 2400-2500 pounds with 650 plus HP. He says this will be surprisingly affordable.

I have converted a perimeter short track car to road race before, but wouldn't waste the time again to make the changes when Howe or Bemco or other can build you a purpose built chassis for a reasonable number.

The ASA National Tour cars were more suited to road racing (especially the Howe cars) as they are true perimeter cars and need fewer changes. They also featured LS1's which was nice.

You can squeeze 18" wheels and tires under these ASA cars, by changing the offsets, sometimes you might have go with different A frames or even different axle tubes in the quick change rear end. But do not discount the performance of the Hoosier and GY bias stock car tire. It is exceptional and they only cost about 600 per set. It is what they use on the TA2 cars and look how fast they are.

We have used straight up rear ends and up to negative 1 1/2 degree set ups and I really couldn't tell any diff and lap times were similar. Most just go with straight up with the bias tire. Negative 2.5 to 3 static is fairly typical for the front with the bias tire.

SouthernSon

And you run it well! I guess we will see some more ASA's running with us in the not too distant future. The four of you now are taking home all of the trophies. Plus the fact that the tires are cheap, the brakes last forever and service access is so easy keeps me looking at them. Of course, I will then need to buy another trailer (enclosed).

PushinTheLimit

Over the past few years that I've been involved with road racing and HPDE, I haven't seen many cars that are as reliable on the track as the C5. Mine had very few problems when I ran it. Once I fixed a couple of minor issues, I rarely ever had to work on it during the course of a weekend.

Parts might be higher for the vette, but for an all around good track car... it's tough to beat.

Scooter70

AddictedToTrack runs adapters so that he can use C5Z06 rear wheels and 18" scrubs on his ASA car. He says that it's easier to drive now than with the bias ply slicks that he had on it before. For open track days, it's been a great car for him.

RX-Ben

By "stock car" do you a "street car" or like a NASCAR/circle track stock car?

If a circle track car, I generally agree, now that I think about it. Maybe a one here or there, but even the highly developed cars (or at least the cars that I have seen for the past few years) always have some sort of a problem than tends to make them drop out or miss a race entirely.
(note, this is totally anecdotal evidence and obviously there is a decent chunk of the field of TA2 cars that survives).

brkntrxn

NASCAR/ASA/circletrack/roadcourse tube frame stock cars. I have seen lots of them at the track and have never seen one make it an entire weekend without some kind of work.

The high-strung engines of the upper-level cars could explain some of it. But I have seen lots of oil leaks, tranny issues, rear end issues, electrical gremlins, etc. as well.

If some of these cars are coming available with stockish LS engines, then that might be the trick.

We run some old superspeedway Richmond four speed transmissions (older NASCAR stuff) in some of our cars and they are darn near bullet-proof behind 450-550 hp on the road course. The superspeedway transmissions are supposedly weaker than the road course transmissions because the gears are back-cut to reduce weight (imagine a gear that is shaped like a fan belt pulley and not a normal gear). I broke one of them at VIR last year, but the trans lived for years behind a LOT of abuse. That particular gear (3rd) is sitting on my desk at work as a paperweight.

Living in the absolute center of NASCAR country, I can attest to the availability of cheap, used parts. Within a mile of my house are two used NASCAR parts stores. However, not a single one of those parts are sold at Advance Auto on a Saturday night when your car broke in the last session of the day and the big race is tomorrow morning. And more than likely, none of your friends have that part either. You will also be limited on wet weather tires due to the 15" wheel and brake package.

I will make one other point that Ben elluded to in Jack Roush's quote: I have yet to see a stock car that was faster than a C5 in a corner. I cannot tell you how many times I have been held up by one of these cars in the corners only to see them walk off and leave me on the next straight. And then we do it all over again in the next corner. The only saving grace is that at some point it is going to break and get out of my way. I had this happen at Nationals last year as well.

Several of my neighbors and friends are engineers and mechanics for the big-boy NASCAR teams. They constantly amaze me with stories of the parts or technology they developed for such-and-such's car, but the NASCAR officials refused to allow the parts because it was too advanced. No joke.

brkntrxn

There is no camber adjustment per se, but the rear axle tubes can be cut to give a static degree or three of camber.