volkswagens-for-life

I can travel. Doesn't watkins glen offer regular people the usage of their track w/ their cars? I want to take my c4 somewhere and really open it up on a roadcourse.



yes, this post may have been inspired by a dream I had last night racing a road course with ferrari, porsche and other vettes. lets say I was highly disappointed when I woke up :/

BrianCunningham

Watkins Glen
NJMP
Lime Rock

Hat_Trick_Hokie

Many HPDE groups host events at Watkins Glen, where you bring your own car. The main two that come to me are:

NASA Northeast - http://www.nasanortheast.com/
Chin Motorsports - http://chinmotorsports.com/

volkswagens-for-life

Never heard of NJMP or Lime rock... will look into those.

How do I enter my car so I can drive around the track? I have NO idea how to do this... its been a dream for years, and now that I have a z51 I would be a moron for not pursuing it.

I'll check those websites out... I assume they give a date/time when to bring my car for open track?

Hat_Trick_Hokie

They are great facilities. Lime Rock is in CT, and NJMP is in New Jersey.

The websites should have some FAQ's on this subject, but you'll need to get your car track-ready (fluids, brake pads, etc) and get yourself a helmet. Then you can sign up for one of their events, so you have classroom sessions and an instructor for the weekend.
http://www.nasanortheast.com/index.php/hpde

Yes, most organizations have track schedules posted for the 2014 season.

volkswagens-for-life

Will my moto-x helmet suffice? Visor and all? (mild sarcasm... but remaining hopeful).

Do I NEED to attend track day w/ a group of some sort, or can I go as a lone individual?

Hat_Trick_Hokie

Depends on what the SNELL rating is for your helmet. Check under the inside padding for the SNELL sticker. Some groups allow motorcycle rated helmets like M2005 and M2010, others require the car-specific SA2005, SA2010, SAH2005, or SAH2010.

Depends on your wallet size, but I'm sure you could rent out the track as a lone individual if you wanted. That being said, I would not recommend this at all. Driving on track is a whole different animal than driving fast on the street, and having an instructor in the passenger seat is very beneficial. I was at a private track rental earlier this year, and saw some individuals wreck their pristine cars because they were novices to driving on track and did not have the benefit of instructors.

Good luck

Bill32

No, you can't go as an individual, the tracks have test days which are for serious (experienced) drivers/racers and usually require a license of track permit.

Besides, you really don't want to be on track the first time without an instructor and the classroom time. You'll have WAY more fun with a bit of instruction (I've instructed for 15 years). You'll be able to go a good bit faster with the instructor. Usually there's a 20 minute classroom then, a 25 minute session on track, then classroom, track, etc.

Both the event organizations listed above are excellent.

The helmet may be OK but check with the organization first (they may also have loaner helmits).

volkswagens-for-life

I'll check the safety rating on the helmet... thank you.

Wallet size? I'm assuming a "group rate" is cheaper then?

Wait a tick.. "hpde" track days include an instructor???????????? That would be friggen awesome....


Sorry, I know NOTHING about actually going to the track. I just know how to drive good on the street

Bill32

No problem.

Yea, wallet size
You want to rent the track for yourself - $5,000.00

Go with NASA or Chin - around $250.00 or so

Yep, instructors included, I know with NASA and my org. (SCCA), instructors are mandatory for new drivers.

You're gonna have a blast.

volkswagens-for-life

Holy damn, $5,000 to rent the track

I would LOVE to have an instructor... much more than just tinkering around by myself.

So all in all, how far will a $250 track session get me on a given day? How many hours of drive time, class time etc?

Bill32

Depends on the event but, the min is usually 4 - 25 to 30 minute sessions with 3 or 4 25 minute classroom sessions. And 25 minutes in between the classroom and track session to bs with the other drivers, watch the other groups, check your tire pressures, etc.

By the last session of the day, you'll be a bit tired out but really happy.

volkswagens-for-life

holycrap that sounds like SO much fun. I can guarantee I'm tired out after that much driving at high levels of intensity, lol.

Do they actually take you up to speed and have you push the car for this training?

Thanks so much for your input guys.. really excited to start this.

Bill32

No, they won't have you push the car unless you are capable of doing so. While every instructor is a bit different, the MAIN thing we insist on is safety, second is having fun. If that means you want to go 70mph on the straights, so be it. If you want to go 120 mph, fine as long as you listen to your instructors commands and follow them.
The instructor's objective is for you to be comfortable at all times.

Many first time students are doing 120 within a few laps and slowing down for the corners correctly.

The first session for you will be "where the hell am I ?" as you learn the track. Emphasis will be on the correct racing lines at slow (relatively) speeds. You'll concentrate (and hear from the instructor):
Brake...downshift.....turn in.....look for the apex....pick up the throttle, etc.

argonaut

Figuring out how this all works at first can be a bit confusing so let me try to shed some light:

• There are several race tracks in the northeast. Watkins, NJMP (2 tracks) and Lime Rock as mentioned. Also there is Pocono in Pennsylvania, Summit Point in West Virginia (3 tracks), Pittsburgh International, Thompson Speedway in CT (new track) and Monticello in NY (private track). Then you have Mosport near Toronto.
• Terms like "DE", "HPDE", "Track Day", "PDX" all mean the same thing - driving events where you can take your own car out on one of these tracks.
• Usually a Track Day works like this - some club or organization rents the track from the owners for the day and then sells 'slots' to guys like you and me. Usually what you 'buy' is 4 on-track sessions and one or more classroom sessions.
• The organizations that do this are many but they more or less all do it in the same way. There are the national auto clubs like SCCA (sports car club of america) and NASA (national auto sports association). Then there are the marque specific clubs like PCA (porsche club of america), bmw, audi, etc. Typically they don't care that you drive a Vette, you are still welcome. Then there are the private clubs/orgs - Hooked on Driving, Track Time for Cars, Chin, TrackDaze and many other. Finally - in some cases - the track owners themselves will stage their own track days - Summit Point does this.
• Drivers are classified into groups according to their experience and ability. Each group gets 4 sessions on track. Typically there will be an instructor group, an advanced group, an intermediate and a novice.
• Everybody starts in Novice with an Instructor in the right seat (almost all organizers do this). With several track days completed and recommendation of instructor most typically move up to intermediate run group. Sometimes intermediate has instructors, sometimes not. Eventually you can work your way into the advanced group where speeds are much higher and most drivers are solo.
• Some organizers (mostly the private ones only) allow advanced group to take out passengers, which can be very fun if you have friends or family who are interested.
• Advancement rate depends on the organizer and they do not all use the same criteria or even share data with one another. Thus you could be in the novice group with one club and the intermediate with another.
• In the novice group - passing is usually restricted to the longer straightaways and only with a point-bye (the driver of the car being overtaken must stick arm out window and point as to which side the car behind should pass on).
• In intermediate passing rules can be mixed but usually have some limits. In advanced groups passing is often times unrestricted, even in corners. But the 'passing rules' are set by the track day organizer and do differ from one to another.
• As a novice driver you will almost always have the opportunity to do ride alongs with an instructor (you in the right seat). This can be awesome fun and a good learning experience.
• To get started the best approach is to look up the websites of the above track day organizers and find their event calendars. Each group will also post their particular rules and info about how a track day works, what to bring, etc.
• The instructors are often the same regardless of track day organizer - so its not necessarily better to sign up for your first event with club A vs. club B. Although some event organizers do have better reputations for safety, schedule, track time, etc better than others. You are always safe going with SCCA, NASA or one of the marque clubs because they have very specified national rules that each regional club must follow. The private organizers less so and tend to be a mixed bag (don't assume that’s a bad thing - Chin is a private org with a sterling reputation)
• As of today - not all organizers have their 2014 schedules posted.
• Another way to find track days in your area is to look at the Track's own website - usually in a 'club events' section, they will list who has rented their track each day (you will see a lot of motorcycle events this way as well as private rentals).
• There are a couple of internet sites that exist for no other reason than to handle the sign up and money collection process: Motorsportsreg.com is one, there is another whose name escapes me. Lots of track day organizers use motorsportsreg.com to do the actual sign up and payment processing. This is also a good way to find track days in your area.
• As mentioned, the cost of a track day can be expensive. In the northeast many events are two-day affairs costing in the $370-$450 range for entry fee. Then you have fuel (on track 5-10 mpg), food, lodging, etc. on top of that.
• If you aren't aware of it - Autocross (AX) is also a very fun way to spend a day with your car driving around cones layed out in a big parking lot. Its way more fun than it sounds and is MUCH cheaper - ~$50/day. SCCA is the biggest promoter of AX events.

Hope that helps, Brad

volkswagens-for-life

:drool: Thats so cool. Sounds like a blast. I'm such a kid stuck in an adults tie

volkswagens-for-life

Brad,
That all is very helpful and must have taken a lot of time to draw up... thank you. Auto-x seems kinda cheesy and not as much fun as a full blown track... although I wouldn't discount trying an AX event. A 2-day track event would be bliss for me

Sox-Fan

AutoX might sound cheesy but it's some of the best fun with your car that 50 bucks will buy you. It's a lot more challenging than you think. Given where you live you're accessible to a heck of a lot of AutoX events too, so if you get hooked you could run pretty much every weekend during the season for not a ton of money.

volkswagens-for-life

Thats a good point.

There's no real racing in ax is there? Isn't it basically a time challenge?

BrianCunningham

You're not trading paint either

and if you screw up, you just run a cone over.