s'noJob

Could've. Perhaps should've. But wasn't.

.

RedLS1GTO

I don't see a "perhaps" in there.

Absolutely should have.


Don't even get me started on the "out the window" HPDE point-by concept. At no point, EVER, should you have a body part outside the car. E-V-E-R.

vette6aut0x

What concept would you recommend?

PaConehead

Probably a passenger - an instructor wouldn't do that! Well . . . maybe a parade lap.

s'noJob

Turn signals?

It was an instructor.

.

s'noJob

Only about +5 hp. But reduced by aerodrag from hand out the window.
.

Supercharged111

The stickers generate vortices which allow the boundary layer to adhere better.

SouthernSon

Perhaps the instructor thought you guys were on the parade laps. How fast were you going? Seriously, not good form exposing a lapse moment in judgment from someone risking their life to help you. You have a loooooonnggg way to go before you starting pointing fingers at instructors, grasshopper.

sleeper02Z06

If anyone on this website, let alone thread, says they have never had their hand outside of the plain of the window at one time or another, at speed, on track..........lie. The depth of judgment here is almost as deep as it was for GM building a blown Z06!

s'noJob

I exposed nobody. That copyrighted image is available to anybody on the Internet. With research, I'm sure that somebody could determine the name of that instructor, if they were so determined to harm his reputation.

Ironically, I started this thread to open to discussion as to whether one should be black-flagged for something as innocuous as demonstrating their comfort level with the driver.

But if it offends so much, flag the thread and the moderators will take it down.
.

RedLS1GTO

The only time my hand has ever been outside of a car at speed on a track has been when required by an HPDE event if I was at one... and I hate doing it even in those instances. ...especially with the current car because it means that the window net can't be up.

I can also guarantee you 100%, without any question whatsoever, that I have never been cruising around a track holding on to the A-pillar as seems to be the case here.

I've seen many people with a quick wave of "thanks" or something of the sort that is a hand slightly out of the window. Personally, I would do it down the middle of the car with my right hand as opposed to out the side, but even that is nowhere near the same as holding on the the pillar.

sleeper02Z06

You are perfection then sir. I digress.......

A picture is a snapshot in time. You are making a big assumption with the last statement.

RedLS1GTO

GMAFB. Not sticking your hand out of the window of a race car at speed SHOULD be common f**king sense to most. It has nothing at all to do with claiming "perfection". You want to cruise around with your hand out the window, go for it.


Hence the phrase "AS SEEMS TO BE THE CASE" in my post.

RedLS1GTO

I saw you commented on my GTA crash post. THAT is exactly why you cannot be too careful with things like this. There was absolutely nothing about that incident that could not have happened at an HPDE turning 75% laps. As fast as it happens, if your hand is out the window... I hope you like affectionate nicknames like "Righty". There is no passenger seat of course, but hypothetically, if someone was on the passenger side of my car with their hand out EXACTLY like in that picture, it would have been the first thing to hit the tire wall on the right side... and it would not have ended well.

The fact of the matter is that by a massive factor, SAFETY trumps speed and performance in my mind. Even at an HPDE, the speeds that these cars are going is incredible. I don't care how good you are, things can and inevitably if you do it long enough, will go wrong. When things do go wrong, you should do everything possible to make sure that you walk away in 1 piece. Keeping yourself inside the car is 1 of the very easiest steps in making that happen. It is not a judgement, patting myself on the back, nor a claim of perfection to say that.

vette6aut0x

Thats all good if the guy turns his signal off after the pass. Been there done that.

vette6aut0x

Have you any information of anyone losing a limb in a DE while doing a point by? If you can then I would lean more towards what you are saying. Not saying because it has not happened it wont ever, but the stats just dont go in favor of what you stated about DEs.

RedLS1GTO

I don't. I also don't have any information about people burning to death... doesn't mean that I'm not wearing a fire suit.



Like I said, if you want to hang your hand out the window, go for it.

rbl

WOW ... listen to yourself. Are you on fire, did your steering wheel fall off, or just hysterical in case it turns out bad?

Geeze ... this just isn't a big deal at all and you're way .... way over the top. Let it rest, depart into the sunset with the calm of evening.

Sleeper got it right ... we all have made some small mistakes from time to time.

RedLS1GTO

Hysterical in case it turns out bad? Really?

Of course we have all made mistakes. I've made plenty myself. Which proves my point even more. Mistakes happen. Things go wrong.

At VIR, where I think this was taken, my stock power, full weight C5Z was just shy of 150mph on the back stretch. What, exactly, do you think happens when a mistake happens at those speeds? Factory Corvettes are reaching speeds not far from some of the higher classes of road racing. If you don't respect the severity and possible consequences of that, I don't know what else to tell you.

I've seen cars on their roof at an HPDE, I've seen brakes fail, I've seen suspension fail and send a car nose first into the wall on a straightaway. I watched someone at VIR forget they were running the Grande course and damn near wipe out another driver (the video has shown up here, I was there). I'm sure we all have stories...

If you think that being as safe as possible and preparing for those things happening is "being hysterical", I guess I am happy to be that way.


Let me make this abundantly clear. If you want to have your arm out the window and turn laps in jeans and a t-shirt wearing factory seatbelts, I could not possibly care less. I choose not to do so.

...and yea, it may be a simple mistake. The original question was should it have been black flagged. The answer is yes. I'm sure the guy didn't even realize what he was doing. Is it the end of the world that he had his hand out? No. Problem is, simple mistakes sometimes have big consequences.

SouthernSon

I guess we have to remember that some here really haven't had much experience with track days. Let's give 'em a few more years and see if such a nit picky thing really cranks their tractor. It is obvious that instructors will always have new fodder at every track event.