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Stupid rule. I'm so against roll bars in a street car. Fender bender and you bust your head on that thing and it's curtains. Give me air bags any day over a steel bar next to my temple.
Stanger383 builds them, you might pm him to see if he's still doing it.
You'll need to get one custom made, since no one makes one that complies with the rules.
Here's a portion of the rulebook that deals with the Z06.
Neither the floor nor the channel behind the seat is legal for mounting a rollbar. Get a rulebook and make sure the fab guy reads the whole section.
Race Specialty Designs (Steve@RSD) sells a bolt-in roll bar that is claimed to be NHRA legal to 10.00. This would seem to conflict with your statement. Comment?
Stupid rule. I'm so against roll bars in a street car. Fender bender and you bust your head on that thing and it's curtains. Give me air bags any day over a steel bar next to my temple.
Stanger383 builds them, you might pm him to see if he's still doing it.
Page xiv of the 2015 nhra rulebook, paragraph 5:
"Additionally,requirements and specifications for Street Legal are the same as those for the Summit Racing Series with the following exception. Unaltered 2008 OEM model-year and newer production cars running slower than 9.99 and 135 mph do not have to meet the requirements and specifications for the Summit Racing Series except for the following: Convertibles and T-tops must meet Summit Racing Series roll-bar and roll-cage requirements, All drivers must meet the Summit Racing Series helmet and protective-clothing requirements."
Note that this rule applies only to "Street Legal" program events, not any other type of event. Page xiv is the NHRA "Drags, Street Legal Style presented by AAA" Program description page.
The mph rule is key. Alot of factory cars are capable of that speed even without nearing the 9.99 et. Early current gen Nissan GTRs run mid 11s factory stock, but at high mphs in the 130 range. If they only went with the Summit ET rule they wouldnt need a bar until 11.49, but because theyre faster than 125, would need one. With the 2008 rule theyre ok. Newer GTRs can break 135, so would need a cage installed despite being "factory stock".
The current understanding of "unaltered" is factory stock or factory replacement equipment. Aftermarket tunes cannot be determined by tech inspectors. Drag radials are considered "street tires" by the NHRA, but the NJSP Racing Control Unit considers them an alteration.
Personally, I agree that portions of the "2008" rule are silly. Why is a car that runs 11.30 in stock trim ok to 10 flat, but the same car with a supercharger or HP camshaft not?
Why is a 2008 corvette safer than a 2006? Theyre identical for all practical purposes.
the 2008 rule was written because of the factory installed safety systems and the improvements in passenger compartment rigidity that modern cars are engineered with. The rule is strictly worded so that you wont perform some of the old school practices of removing equipment or material from the car to find cheap speed. If you pull a couple hundred pounds of airbags, sensors and wiring then hack parts of the sheetmetal structure out thats hidden behind other panels youre obviously gaining performance by "altering" the cars safety.
Adding performance with turbos or nitrous shouldnt be considered in the 2008 rule because youre not changing the structural or safety systems.
Of course, all these rules only apply to the racetrack anyway. If you want the safety net of controlled circumstances, on site emergency medical and fire supression personnel and equipment, and the knowledge that the drivers on track with you understand the importance of the rules to their own and your safety, you wont have an issue with compliance .
As long as you dont go to the track, you can do whatever you want to your street car because theres a whole 'nother set of rules that applies there...
I have a problem putting a steel bar next to my head in a car that I drive to work in. All too easy to get a pipe against your head in a simple fender bender.
They really need to get rid of that rule. If you want to promote safer racing and get racing off the streets get rid of that rule from a time long gone.
I do agree that when you're going 150 mph in a ¼ mile you need a cage for your safety. Of course we can see from Daddy Dave's broken seatbelt mount that regardless of tech inspections, if you don't build your car right you can get hurt. I trust the OEM designers for seat belts and air bags. So should NHRA.
The NHRA does trust the manufacturer with airbags, seatbelts and even quality engineering and construction.
Its "us" they dont trust. Because "we" want to enhance the performance of the car beyond its factory capabilities.
The NHRA has been doing this for over sixty years. Theyve learned that, under racing circumstances and at certain performance levels, the driver is safer with specific safety equipment should the worst case scenario occur. Thats what the rules are meant to affect, that worst case situation.
Ocassionally racing your daily driver is easy and fun, I run my 06 Impala SS now and then.
Daily driving a racecar requires you to make sacrifices for it to be a safe racecar.
The rules arent intended to make you safer on the street, only on the racetrack.
You are missing my point but I don't really feel like arguing with you. My car is limited to 13.99 as per their rules (which date back to the 80's when I started driving, likely much longer than that). That's NOT fun.
The roll bar rule is crazy they way it's written. It's keeping folks with relatively quick street cars from being able to use the track (unless they are wiling to live with a steel pipe next to their head all the time), which I am not.
So folks either street race or buy a Prius.
I bought a Prius.
lol actually in FL the rules are different on many things, which is good in some instances, not so good in others.
Race Specialty Designs (Steve@RSD) sells a bolt-in roll bar that is claimed to be NHRA legal to 10.00. This would seem to conflict with your statement. Comment?
BIGMAC
A direct quote from the NHRA rulebook is:" All vehicles with an OEM frame must have rollbar welded or bolted to frame".
There is another place in an illustration that states "All cars with an OEM frame must have rollbar attached to frame"
NHRA put the illustration I posted in the rulebook with the specific intent to identify how the attachment to the frame could be accomplished.
Neither the RSD, Wolfe, or RPM rollbars attach to the frame.
How you view the advertiser's claims is not in the rulebook either, but I can be assured that my local track follows the rulebook and not the maunfacturer's claims.
I have a problem putting a steel bar next to my head in a car that I drive to work in. All too easy to get a pipe against your head in a simple fender bender.
They really need to get rid of that rule. If you want to promote safer racing and get racing off the streets get rid of that rule from a time long gone.
I do agree that when you're going 150 mph in a ¼ mile you need a cage for your safety. Of course we can see from Daddy Dave's broken seatbelt mount that regardless of tech inspections, if you don't build your car right you can get hurt. I trust the OEM designers for seat belts and air bags. So should NHRA.
Of course, nobody asked my opinion! lol
Originally Posted by Joe_G
You are missing my point but I don't really feel like arguing with you. My car is limited to 13.99 as per their rules (which date back to the 80's when I started driving, likely much longer than that). That's NOT fun.
The roll bar rule is crazy they way it's written. It's keeping folks with relatively quick street cars from being able to use the track (unless they are wiling to live with a steel pipe next to their head all the time), which I am not.
So folks either street race or buy a Prius.
I bought a Prius.
lol actually in FL the rules are different on many things, which is good in some instances, not so good in others.
The rollbar rule has been 13.49 for verts at least since '07, but it makes no difference for you, since short of cutting up the area behind the seat, you can't make a legal rollbar.
The part about hitting your head on a steel pipe in a fender bender is an invalid excuse, because the NHRA rule states that anywhere your helmet has the possibility of contacting the rollbar, that it must be padded with SFI accepted padding. Personal experience tells me that hitting the side window with a helmet on, will still give you a headache, so I imagine it would be worse without the helmet.
Yes, newer cars are inherently safer than older ones, but short of cherrypicking the safety aspects of every car to create rules, we have to accept the ones that the organizations require. Like you say, it "is good in some instances, not so good in others".
Pretty sure the rule is 13.99 for NHRA, 13.49 for IHRA.
Doesn't matter - padding or not, if I get tagged in the left rear corner and my head bangs that rollbar, I'm going to be furious at best and dead at worst. Plus, there is not room for a legal rollbar in a convertible if you want to maintain the use of the top. Which of course I want to do in my street car.
OP I'm sorry for taking your thread astray. I won't do it any further.
But you might want to look into the new rules to see if they fit your car and thus you won't need the bar. Unless you want it of course.
Drew, what was the issue that keeps you off the track?
How fast are you going?
I have a rulebook here with me, I can look up specifics if you can give me some details.
what year Z06? Is it a coupe or vert?
Are you running slicks? Aftermarket turbo,supercharger or nitrous?
i wasn't officially ejected cause the last time i ran was on a private track day and they said if i kept it up i would be so i just stopped running for the day.
last visit on street tires and stock clutch and i ran 11 flat at 130mph. car is an 08 coupe: has shaved heads, cam and full exhaust. i have no doubt that with a good clutch and some tires would be mid 10's. i just can't prove it without a cage.
Tech inspection is based on the honor system. You tell us what youve done, and well tell you what you need to do to meet the rules. If youre just under the ET/MPH number (maybe a couple tenths or mph)for something we could say try to slow down and take care of it before you come back. That puts you in Joes predicament of its no fun slowing it down.
Since you made those changes, its not "unaltered" so its not a 2008 rule exception anymore. you already have to get the roll bar like you said in the first post.
For your car, that would be mounted the way that diagram shows. You would need a 5 point bar. Thats the hoop, two down bars at the back and a side bar on the drivers side. There are location details also in the rulebook. This only applies if you dont go 135 mph.
"All rollbars must be within 6 in of the rear, or side of the drivers head, extend in height at least 3 inches above drivers helmet with the driver in normal driving position or be within 1 in of the roof/headliner in the area above the drivers helmet and be at least as wide as the drivers shoulders or within 1 in of the drivers door. Rollbar must be adequately supported or cross braced to prevent forward or lateral collapse. Rear braces must be of the same diameter and wall thickness as the roll bar and intersect with the roll bar at a point not more than 5 in from the top of the roll bar. Crossbar and rear brace must be welded to main hoop. Sidebar must be included on drivers side and must pass the driver at a point midway between shoulder and elbow. Swing out sidebar permitted. All roll bars must have in their construction a crossbar for seat bracing and shoulder harness attachment point; crossbar must be installed no more than 4 in below, and not above, the drivers shoulders or to side bar. All vehicle with OEM frame must have rollbar welded or bolted to frame...(skipping unibody specifics) Welding must be free of slag and porosity. Any grinding of welds prohibited. See illustration. Roll bar must be padded anywhere drivers helmet may contact it in driving position. Adequate padding must have minimum1/4 in compression or meet SFI spec 45.1"
Last edited by bluestinger66; 09-21-2015 at 11:05 PM.
Thats a question I cant answer. I could point you to a couple of reasonably local chassis guys that might be able to help you. I can get info tomorrow.
i really do appreciate the help! i understand the rules but i'm looking for a manufacturer that sells one that complies.
And that's the problem, which is why I said in post #2 "You'll need to get one custom made, since no one makes one that complies with the rules."
If you race at a track that turns a blind eye to the rules and assumes anything that resembles a rollbar is OK and you're OK with the ruse, then fab something out of black PVC and attach it with Velcro, because it won't cause as many problems as the other stuff if you get upside down.
Personally, I made my own and designed them to meet the rules and also be a quick install/remove, so they don't have to be a permanent addition.
09-21-2015, 12:46 AM
