'79ProwlerOrange

My goal is to have my vette run 11s. it currently has the stock L-82 motor, with a few mods. its running eagle forged pistons and rods, a 327/350 horse mild cam and compression is at 9.9:1.

i was going to run an Ati Procharger, but i guess the D1 dosent fit under the hood. i havent really looked into Vortec or Paxton, but i hear Ati is the best, and i dont want a roots because i dont like the way they look with the hood i have.

anyway, i would like to be able to pass emisions, run on pump fuel, and get decent gas mileage. 12+mpg

am i dreaming? should i take out the original motor and throw in a 496 rat? Turbo the 350? the main thing is that i want it to be streetable, but run 11s. and please take into consideration that i run at the highest strip in the country. bandimere is over 5280 feet above sea level. :mad

'79ProwlerOrange

ttt

mackeyred96

I with you luck, my friend but anything is possible.

MoMo

Sounds like your motor is strong enough for nitrous. Why not experiment with 150 to 175 horse nitrous shots and see what that power really feels like on the street. You may just decide to keep it like it is and have it nitroused.

You see, what I'm worried about is your compression ratio. 9.9:1 is really a little too high to get good gains from supercharging. Even if you used thick head gaskets and dropped it to 9.5:1, you'd only be able to get roughly 4 psi of boost before detonating. Maybe 6 with intercooling. And besides living with knocking and pinging (until a piston gives up), you'll have a car that accelerates dangerously fast for the street.

My Firebird's that way with its 10:1 465 engine.

Nitrous on the other hand, will keep your engine happier on pump gas, and then when you want it, you'll still get at least the same power on the juice, probably more. Plus it enters the cylinder at 140 below zero, and with extra fuel, discourages detonation. It's literally a chemical supercharger.

Don't be so quick to lose the 327. It's a great motor. I know what you're talking about on the torque issue. But you can overcome that with gearing and make it a very good running car. Try a Richmond 5-speed and maybe 3.55 gears for your top end. The Richmond's first four gears are really steep, and will make your Vette feel like a Muncie with 4.56 gears.

What do you think about nitrous?

'79ProwlerOrange

i was thinking about NOS but became discouraged with it. i dont like the idea of having to fill up my bottle every now and again, which isnt a big deal or too expensive, but all the same. And for some reason, NOS seem like cheating to me. like all the hondas that do 10s... they usually use a huge turbo and NOS and sure they did a 10, but they had to use turbo and NOS. i think its just a mind set because i like twin turbo and twin spuercharger systems. i was planning on doing a 250+ shot of nitrous on a progressive controller, but i changed my mind. plan basically is to be blown, turboed, or buy a big block and rebuild it to get 550-650hp out of it.

if it was a 327, id keep it the same, for some reason i really like the sound of 327, but its a run of the mill L-82 350. its numbers match, so i would put it in storage if i were to switch to a 427 or 454.

forgot, if i supercharge it i will redo the pistons and heads to give a little less compression. my auto tech teacher said that at this altitude we are able to run 9:1 compression and not encounter to many problems with supers up to 15psi. which is still a problem, because i wanted to run 20psi :cuss


[Modified by '79ProwlerOrange, 8:43 PM 2/24/2002]


[Modified by '79ProwlerOrange, 8:54 PM 2/24/2002]

ChrisB

9.9:1 is still going to be pushing it a little for a good supercharged setup. From your post I understand you have forged pistons/rods with a stock crank?

What you might consider is going with a topend setup - heads, cam, valvetrain, etc. You could go with slightly larger combustion chambers and get yourc ompression down to around 9.4:1 or so. This would give you room to run 10-12lb's of boost. I would go with a vortech or ATI in this situation. If your car isn't already, I would switch to some hydraulic roller lifters.

The final thing to consider would be tuning. In ablower setup this is critical - have you considered something like the fast/speed pro dfi setup?

WashingtonRacer

kinda off the subject of his motor. but I am curious. I thought at 9:4:1 to 9:0:1 you could only run like 7 or 8 psi. My engine used to be running at 9:2:1 and then I swapped the pistons and put in some thick copper gaskets for my turbos. now I am down to a suggested 8:0:1 compression. How much boost doi you think I would be able to handle at that point?? I was thinking just 14 or so. I was planning on just starting her up and slowly turning up the boost to find my max applicable boost.

Lt1er

Dhylton on the C-3 forum runs an11 second 79 with a Weiand 144 ci mini blower that fits on top of the motor. I'm sure that he would help you on any questions. He said that a better choice would have been the 177 ci. C-3's run into problems with placement of ATI/PROCHARGERS because of the limited room in the front.

To make a 11 sec car you need @500. Or a lighter car with good drag racing suspension can do it with less HP

MoMo

Nitrous is no more cheating than running a blower is. It is, in fact, exactly the same. Just a whole lot easier to install. Along with the atmospheric pressure and normal fuel charge, you're introducing 2 extra oxygen atoms with every nitrogen atom along with extra fuel. All that extra oxygen does exactly what a supercharger or turbo does. Exactly.

What the ricers do is take it to an obscene extreme. I couldn't believe what I was seeing when I watched the Fast and the Furious. Not one, but two 40 lb bottles. Lowdy Miss Clowdy. Roasted 4-banger anyone?

But there's nothing wrong with superchargers or turbos. In fact, I love them. If that's your passion, go for it. I think you might get a lower compression ratio with either a switch to larger chamber heads or have your current heads' combustion chambers machined for better swirl, and made larger in the process. And then use a 0.060" Felpro gasket to drop compression a little more.

That would be easier and cheaper than a rebuild with new pistons. That is, if you just have your current heads machined.

When I look at my C3's engine compartment, most of the room is up front. There's a lot of room if you don't have an air conditioner anyway.

I went with a 427 big block in mine. But sometimes I wonder if I should have stayed with the 400 SBC and built a twin turbo 377 instead. I think I'll like the 427 just fine, but I doubt I'll want nitrous like I originally planned. I'll play with nitrous on my Firebird instead.

StingrayRacing

I think you can get into the 11's with less than 500hp, maybe 450hp would do it, but everything else will have to be right, especially traction & gearing.
This is assuming a race weight of around 3000 pounds (without you).
Of course the lighter the better!

ChrisB

psi is somewhat ambiguous since it's a measure of 2 factors - your compressor's CFM output and the restriction of your engine itself 10psi on a 355 with stock heads+cam is going to have different requirements then 10psi on an 18degree 434 solid roller.

There is also the question of where you make the boost at - with a set of turbo's - esp. if they spool up quickly, 10psi at 3000 rpm is going to require much lower compression than 10psi with a centrifugal supercharger at 5500rpm.

At 8:1 though - assuming a decent set of head and cam on a 355/383 I would be looking for 14lbs minimum also - it will depend greatly on the turbo's you used though (what rpm they are going to provide what boost at, etc.) - your idea is really the best one - find out what the max boost is that works well for your situation though experimentation - unless someone has built the exact same setup previously that's the only way to know for sure.



It doesn't have any relevance to your point :) but nitrous is nitrous oxide or N2O - one extra oxygen atom per every 2 nitrogen atoms. NO2 would be nitrogen peroxide.




It's not as critical on blower cars as on NA cars (why I am not really sure) - but I would still watch out for your quench - I would still try and keep it between 0.035-0.045 - any extra pre-ignition/detonation resistence you get from the decrease in compression from the 0.060" headgasket will probably be offset by the increased end-gas retention from the larger quench zone.

MoMo

Oh, okay. N2O not NO2.
But all my point was is that Nitrous oxide introduces a lot of extra oxygen than atmospheric pressure, just like a supercharger does. It's a chemical supercharger.

ODennis

Hi Ben,

Getting into the 11's at Bandimere with you car is going to be a challenge, but I know you're up to it!!! You're probably not going to get started on your rebuild plans immediately so if you get the chance, go to Bandimere when racing starts at the end of April. Check out a few cars....see what they had to do to get into the 11's. Then count the number of "street" cars that are in the 11's........you'll be able to use one hand!!! :)

If you do get up there, please come see me. I've got an 82 Collector Edition and I've been racing at Bandimere for several years.

Regards,
Dennis
2000 King Street Champion
2001 Pro ET Champion
2001 Rocky Mtn. News Driver of the Year
2001 Winner Division 5 Race of Champions (Topeka)


[Modified by ODennis, 6:32 PM 3/1/2002]

StingrayRacing

ODennis,

I see your knockin on 10's door...weren't you running like 11.5's in 2000?

What have you done to get it down so low?

ODennis

Hi StingrayRacing,

My car is a 12 sec. car at Bandimere...this last fall it ran 11.86 but the weather was just right (for Bandimere, that is..6868' DA). Over 200 passes at Bandimere the car averaged 12.06 @ 113.50. Topeka, where it ran it's best times, is almost a sea level track...it averaged 2000' DA. I had twelve passes there and it averaged 11.19 @ 120.5.

The car weighs 2800 lbs. (dry), and I've got a good combination of parts. It more came together by accident than by design...I've been lucky. :)

:cheers:
Dennis

'79ProwlerOrange

well i think my plan for now is to get a NOS setup for between $400-$800, and a good 2800ish torque converter for arround $300. Then, say next winter, ill pull the engine and do a complete top end. ill probably do solid lifters, cuz i love that sound :yesnod: , and ill get aluminum heads and match port them and all that good stuff, and of course, get a high lift/ duration cam. maybe ill change to a timing gear set, so it sorta sounds like im charged :lol:

And if that still dosent make her scream, ill pull the engine and do a big block swap. and the good thing about this plan is that if i choose to do a NOS setup with the new engine, all the stuff is there. :yesnod:

Id love to do a Twin Turbo, or a Supercharger, but being that im 19 and i spend all of my money on other stuff, funds to do a power adder will be quite short.

Id love to see your car ODennis, i have all of next week off except for friday, and i dont mid driving to littleton, my blazer loves miles :cheers: