69 N.O.X. RATT

I have read some debate over on the Chevelle forum regarding Solid roller lifters. I have Comp Endurex rollers that Comp is now admitting have a higher failure rate than their standard lifters. I have a friend of mine that had an Endurex lifter go out on him in less than 3000 miles. He has a very large cam in a 540 over .700 lift and 275 degrees at .050.

Any real world experiance on this issue.

A lot of the Chevelle guys tout the Isky lifters. :chevy

71roadster

every time I go to the swap meet I see someone trying to sell a set of roller lifters with on or more broken cross bars or roller wheels. Hence, I have been looking at these....
http://www.schubeckracing.com/radius.htm

a little pricey but when a roller cam is $300 and lifters are at least $300, the piece of mind is probably worth the money (which I think includes the cam). Also, I think this is where oem stuff will start going before long. they are probably working on a hydraulic version as we speak. Materials science is really starting to pay off...

SPD DMN

I dropped 2 Endurex rollers within 4K miles. After 2 solid roller cams at $400 each for just the cam, I am back running a hydraulic roller. (Wasted about $3k trying the solid out.) The guy at comp said my spring pressures were too high for the Endurex. I was running 260 closed, 650 open pressures. I did not want to chance another lifter going out and the wife getting even more mad the car won't stay running.

I would use someone elses lifters if you decide to go solid roller. Isky is supposed to have a nice one, although more expensive. SOme people have good luck with the regular Cranes, but I have a buddy that dropped one of those too.

gkull

I don't know and probably very few really do!

In my personal testing on the street I have had three different kinds. The first. They were cheap probably CC with a verticle bar about 10 years ago. Under 200# closed springs sub .600 lift max rpm @ 7000. Before 5-6000 miles when I pulled the intake to inspect them. They had a few loose rollers and the Vert bars were much looser than originally. So they all went in the dumpster. So then I brought some other Brand X, But the motor blew up before I could do my 5-6000 mile check.

So now with more money to spend i installed The New Crane pro series horizontal bar for SBC. Of course your big block will use verticle. I have over .600 lift and 7000+ rpm an agressive ramped cam and they are still ticking at 18K miles and I use it as a daily driver.

This is a testament to how good they are: 8 months after I put my motor in. I was cleaning out my garage desk and I cam across the Crane Cams Roller lifter installation directions. So I thought to myself I wonder what they have to say on how to do it correctly. My heart sunk The first paragraph was a warning about, "Do not use oil restricters of any kind to the top end with this product." I was thinking - screw me! I was going to have to at least pop the tranny off to remove the oil restricter plugs from the back of the block. So I pulled the intake and it had nearly 10K miles with 10W 30 full synthetic and every one still looked perfect. I inspected them again at 15K miles.

427Hotrod

George is probably having the best run out there of anyone I know considering his spring pressure and RPM.

My first set I bought used with a cam and ran them for 2+ years on the street with a .725 solid roller. I then took them and ran them on a .623 roller for 3+ years before I had a roller finally die. I was using 195 seat and 610 open. Problem is I don't know who made them. I also used restrictors. Those suckers were on three different cams and ran many runs in a dragster before they died!

This time around I used Comps on the .675 cam with 200/500 pressures and no restrictors. I got around 9000 miles before some needles died in one roller. Caught it early and no cam damage. I had them rebuilt by Comp.

When I spoke to Comp, they also said It was amazing they went as far as they did. They are happy with 2-5K on the street with that kind of pressure. They told me the Endurex's are not rebuildable and that they will never live with high pressure. They added more needles to the roller and made the shaft a little smaller, thus weakining them.

Best advice is to pull intake once a year and look at them and rebuild as necessary. Actually , just rebuild them every year is the best advice.

PHR magazine has an article on the Shubeck lifters this month. They are pretty trick but pretty pricy.


Jim

MSR

i used crane pro-series in quite a few engines i assembled. i know the shop i did the work for still uses the same lifters in solid roller engines they sell. not a single one has ever failed.

lots of other valvetrain problems, for sure, but never a lifter problem/failure.

No Go

Sounds like the reliability of a solid roller is rather hit or miss. Don't know if I could sleep at night knowing the lifters may fail after only 4000 miles.

Tempers my enthusiasm for them and renews my interest in solid flat tappets...:(

Steve439

I've read some stuff - so nothing first hand - that the Crower severe duty
lifters with their HIPPO "High Pressure Pin Oiling" option will live long on
the street. I'm going to try the next build.

mountainmotor

I don't know the answer to your question but I have used the Norris "out of business" Crower and Crane. I have never lost one. Never ran them on the street though.

The oil used has VERY much to do with this in my opinion.It is often over looked.

I saw what happened to two different race motors that the guys tried using Mobil Synthetic,,the oil sheared and shelled the motors. Was quite ugly.

427Hotrod

MM's right. I've been talking with him a lot and doing a lot of research. The oil can have a big effect.

Problem is the more you read the more you find out what you don't know! You have to get past the ads and go to the MSDS's and studies, etc to figure out what is what.

The street is a whole 'nuther issue with big rollers and lots of spring pressure. Racing and high rpm actually does a great job of keeping things oiled. Even that nice 2500 rpm highway cruising really cuts down on the oil delivered to the cam as compared to hitting the rev limiter a few times. Plus race motor really don't run that long in relation to going to a few Saturday night cruise ins! Or driving to the track and back.

You should see the efforts the NASCAR and Busch guys put into oiling those flat tappet cams to get them to live for 500 miles. They literally drill the block and install orifices right above each lobe to spray oil directly on the lobe/lifter. Lots of work! And that's to get them to live at 8000 rpm. Of course it's pretty radical flat tappets too!


JIm

gkull

I attribute my luck to the switch to thinner oils 5w-30 and 10w-30. Maybe the 900 rpm idle and going down the road the normal rpm is 3000+ rpm. I also go 4000 miles between checking the lash. It never seems to change. By this winter I should have 20K miles and the whole motor is getting a check/refresh All new rings, bearings, and springs. I'm impressed that everything has lasted so long.

My real interest will be pulling the heads and seeing how the thermal coatings held up on the pistons, chambers, and exhaust valves.

632C2

I have run a number of motors through the years with solid rollers from all the major companies without any failures. This was probably dumb luck.

I have heard in recent years about solid roller lifter failure and have been surprised. I had always chocked it up to not having enough oil at the lifter - for a variety of reasons.

With what is being stated here, I am not so sure about this any more. I had planned on examining the lifters every 6 months or so but now I am not so sure.

As far as these Schubeck lifters are concerned, I also read about them and then got on their web site. What they say makes sense but I am not excited about having to change cams as well - which they require.

I would really be interested to see if anyone on this forum were using the Schubeck system and how they worked out.

ML67

I’ve had mixed results w/ solid roller lifters. I ran a set of Comp solid rollers for about 6K miles before stepping up to a race roller w/ attendant killer springs. Used the same lifters and wiped a lifter out in less than 2K miles. Have since switched to Crane Pro Series solid roller lifters which have about 8K miles on them, running 2 different street rollers in the process. BTW I switched to Crane as Comp did not have the lifters I wanted in stock and also Crane offered a $100 discount for turning in your old lifters.

Have to agree w/ what’s been posted, particularly the comment on idle and low speed operation being hard on solid rollers. BBCs rely on oil splash for cam lubrication and this is compromised at low rpm operation. Solid rollers and street operation can be a tricky proposition. I think the key to avoiding catastrophic failure is to implement frequent inspections, maintain meticulous control of lash and perhaps most important keep spring pressures reasonable, which obviously puts a limit on how aggressive you can get w/ your valve timing.

I am very interested in Shubeck’s radius (roller) lifters. I am curious to see how these actually live and perform in a true street environment. Certainly an innovative approach to lifter design. Anyone run them yet?

Take care,

Mark

BeaterShark

With all of the bad stuff I've heard about Comp Cams lifters, I'd probably stay clear of them. But, I already purchaced a street roller cam and the Endure-X lifters. I'm running 155/440 closed/open spring pressures. The car is my daily driver and I've put 9K miles since November. I do have a HV oil pump. Although I do tend to accelerate pretty hard and the engine sees 5500 RPMs daily, most of my driving is cruising 2000 RPM +/- 200 RPM.