allenz

I have been under the impression that Bloomington is more difficult to obtain than Top Flight; is this true? Why?


Thanks,
Allen

Easy Mike

You will get all kinds of opinions on this one. The Bloomington standard is essentially a factory correct restoration. That will include minor imperfections and little glitches on the Corvette at the time it left St. Louis. People forget these cars were mass produced and none of them were ever perfect in every sense. The NCRS standard is a restoration to the condition the Corvette would have been in at the time of delivery to its first owner following any required dealer preparation. Technically, following dealer prep, the Corvette should have been in a little better condition than it was when it left St. Louis. Since we love these cars, most people tend to overrestore them. We spend so much time on fit and finish that our Corvettes end up in better shape than they ever were leaving St. Louis or following Chevy dealer prep. Regardless of whether you want to shoot for Bloomington Gold or an NCRS Top Flight, either are worthy awards.

JmpnJckFlsh

Allen, over at the old digs, some of the older, more irreverant NCRS members would say the "Gold" IS more difficult because some "long green" would have to exchange hands to "Get the Gold". :D :D

Of course we know such a story is entirely ficticious, intended only for entertainment purposes, and that any resemblance of this anecdote to any person, persons, or organizations living or deceased is completely coincidental and utterly beyond belief. I never believed it myself. :jester

allenz

Chuck, you have such a way with words

JmpnJckFlsh

Sorry, Allen, I should have given you a serious answer first. :D

Actually, it is my understanding that it is hard for anyone outside of the Bloomington judging group to "know" what the specific requirements are for "Bloomington Gold". Judging sheets are not available to the public to my knowledge, nor are any judging manuals available to the public which specifically state what standards judges are to maintain.

Both Bloomington Gold and NCRS are judging the cars for how close they comform to the appearance of new cars when they came from the factory, but in either case, it depends on how much experience the judges have with the car. How much latitute does each organization allow its judges to exercise while judging; i.e. is it a subjective process or an objective process? In either organization, if you happen to draw very experienced judges (read hard footes) that are paying particular attention to every finish and every head stamp, you could have a really nice car and still get slammed.

In NCRS, the judging sheets and judging manuals are freely available. After being rewritten and expanded, NCRS judging manuals are excellent reference manuals for restoration. If you have lived, slept, and breathed a restoration for years, you can actually apply NCRS standards yourself and judge the car before you ever get to a meet and have a feel for how you're going to fare. Further, if an NCRS judge attempts to contradict or go beyond what the NCRS judging manual says on any given item, you can appeal to the Team Leader, the Meet Judging Chairman, and if he's present, the National Judging Chairman. It may not go in your direction all the time, but at least it gives you a chance to present your case.

When I first started in Corvettes, I also thought Bloomington Gold was a higher standard than Top Flight. Now, I'm not so sure the reverse isn't true.

PRNDL

More difficult because it costs a LOT more! (I am not implying bribes)

Somebody help me out here. To obtain NCRS top flight you would have to join NCRS ($35?) and pay about $40? to have the car judged.

I saw the Bloomington catalogue..... doesnt it cost something like $500 just to have your car judged at Bloomington?? MJ

3X2-427

Unless you are in the "In Crowd" your first $500 should net you the Silver, your next years $500 should get you the Gold card.
At least the NCRS CAN award you Top Flight first time out and actually do often.

allenz

Thanks very much guys.....politics everywhere, huh?

Reason I asked is that I just bought a double top flight '66 coupe that the seller felt wasn't too far away from either Bloomington or Duntov.

I'll post some pics soon,
Allen

Easy Mike

I don't know the entry fee for judging at Bloomington, but I know they wanted a $500 fee to put a Corvette in the auction this year. Lidia and I were a heartbeat away from buying an extremely nice '65 convertible we ran across back in the vendor area. The owner had intended to auction the car, but it had been raining, attendance was down, and he felt the $500 fee was excessive since the number of potential auction bidders was down.

Tom73

The Certification Judging is $300.00. If you want to go for Survivor it is $200. But if you want Benchmark status you have to complete certification judging ($300) and Survivor judging ($200), plus $150 for Benchmark. Total of $750. But only a VERY few cars are capable of that.

tom...

skia

I was a NCRS master judge for a few years and judged mechianical for the 66 division at Bloomington in 1992 i haven't seen any money change hands at either. As for which is more diiicult i would say the Duntov having 2 of my own. because you have to have 2 scores of 98% or better from 2 different shows plus remember the performance verification is the most single stessful event that you have to get judged on and i have had this done 4 times and have done them more times than i would like to remember. So I would in conclusion say that the Duntov is this most difficult and the most satisfing to an owner. :seeya

PHulst

Allen,

One of our local club members had his 20,000 mile 1984 judged at Bloomington this year, and won Gold after driving the car down there. He was able to get judging sheets from the organization, and in fact we "pre-judged" his car about 2 weeks before that using the sheets.

Patrick

Chuck Gongloff

I'm a NCRS Master Level judge, and have also been a Bloomington Gold judge in the 53-55 division for the past 8 years. The implication that "money changes hands" at Bloomington is just plain false, and I resent the implication. Where did this crap come from? Haven't been on the BB for awhile...vacation and then a computer crash. Bloomington is a once per year event...entry cost is higher. NCRS has many Chapter/Regional events...cost is less. Prestige??? Your call. Chuck

3X2-427

Chuck:
The only implication I (ME Personally) was referring to was the actual costs of entry and repeated re entry should one fail first time out. I NEVER meant to imply that a $$$ for ribbons ever took place because I don't believe it does.
jer