Kevs67

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cg...336397&r=0&t=0

Kevs67

I guess that a one piece is good enough for a driver. But the boys over at NCRS tear them apart. I have read you can never achieve a Top Flight car that has replacement panels. Judges at the National level can supposedly tell and will add deductions to a car. And whats 2.5K on a 100k car? I paid a little less for mine.

JmpnJckFlsh

Hi Kev, I think what Patrick means by one piece, jig-assembled is that the front end is a bonded assembly of all the same individual parts as the original, and that the individual parts are press molded of the the same color fiberglass as the original parts, and are assembled using the same type and color bonding adhesive.

Experienced judges, especially in the mid-year classes, can probably identify replacement panels even at the Regional or Chapter level, but they will need to look closely, maybe for a slight difference in the appearance of the fibers in the glass (Black-out can cover a multitude of sins :D )

In the last several years, the judging standards seem to me to have been relaxed somewhat in the interest of making judging a more fun experience for everybody, and most judges do not have the time, nor the inclination to look for every little nit-pick that's incorrect. Most judges now seem to me to take a "global" look meeting the requirements of the judging sheets, with closer attention to areas of particular interest to them personally.

I have sincere doubts that (one) replacement panel will cause a car not make Top Flight, but I guess it would depend on the intensity of the judges' opinions on such matters. Perhaps, if the car were completely built up of replacement panels, it might cause you not Top Flight, but this is not a subjective thing...each judged area will receive a deduct on lack of originality if detected. If all the deducts add up to enough to drop you well below the minimum raw points for Top Flight, then you lose. If you have known "fault areas" with potential for big point losses, then it behooves you to have a near perfect car in all other respects if you want to Top Flight.

But, I think judges have to be reasonable. Those judges that are actually involved with restoration of cars, are very familiar with the near impossiblility of finding all NOS panels these days, and the outrageous expense if you could find them. After all, if having a replacement engine doesn't necessarily force you to Second Flight, why would having authentic repro body panels do it?

Kevs67

Hey Chuck, I think your right on. I myself have not been able to find the last part I need for my collision repair, Left Parking panel. I'll have to go with the company that Patrick is buying his front end from. I just know what I read over on the other board. And the catch "as it came from the factory" does not include a repo front end. How would one represent a car with a repo front end? for resale? Is it still an original car? That is why I have gathered orig NOS parts for my collision repair. The biggest reason I am suing the person that hit me is the fact I can no longer present my car as a "no hit" and this will represent a substantial value decrease in the future. I'm glad judging has laxed to include repo panels, now NOM is another story. It goes to show if you have a trim and vin tag you could rebuild a POS around it using all REPO and represent it as an original I guess.

JmpnJckFlsh

Well, to me, there is a lot more to originality than if the car has never been in an accident. Stuff happens in life.

What is "originality" anyway? Even in previous discussion on FCR, there was a wide range of opinions on what "ORIGINAL" means. The definition of the word varies according to whom you're talking. If by "ORIGINAL", you mean the car is "ALL ORIGINAL", then no, it is not all original. But, on the other hand, if the bulk of the chassis, body, interior, is complete and molested, all the inspection marks, original fasteners, and parts are still there, I would still consider the car "original". The more extensive the body repairs, particularly if poorly executed, the more difficult it will be to maintain the idea that the car is "original".

If I were selling the car, I would represent it as a genuine Corvette to be evaluated as the potential buyer sees fit; if he asks if the car had been hit, I would explain the circumstances and that the car had been professionally repaired with NOS parts. I would also be insisting on NOS panels if it was someone else's fault that my car had been hit, . He did the dance, now his insurance company is going to pay the fiddler. It's only fair.

I am not sure how much value an "unhit" body would contribute to an otherwise original car ($2000? $5000? $10000?), nor do I have any idea of how you would measure it objectively. An "unhit" body is something all of us want when we buy our Corvette, but many of us have to compromise. For this reason, I don't know what suing the guy will accomplish; it's not going to bring your "unhit" Corvette back, and how do you arrive at a suitable reparation. Are you suing him for "pain and suffering"? If his insurance company is paying extra for NOS parts and having it repaired the best it can be, what else can be done? On the other hand, maybe I am just out of touch with how high-dollar collector cars are priced.

I didn't say repro panels are accepted without reservation in judging. If detected, and they likely will be, then you WILL receive a deduct. What I did say is that I didn't think some repro panels would result in sufficient deductions to necessarily deprive you of a Top Flight if your car was otherwise in near perfect condition.

But, remember that my opinions don't necessarily mean beans when it comes to actual scoring at any given judging event. I am just telling you what I have observed, and what seems right to me. If I'm wrong on what seems right in this judging business, it wouldn't be the first time. If you need a definitive answer on judging questions, I suggest you skip all the commentators, and contact Roy Sinor or the 67 Team Leader directly.

Kevs67

Chuck, I had an appraiser do a Diminished Value Report on my Accident. He came to the conclusion that the car value would be lowered by 20%. This deducted from his appraised value is what I am asking to be compensated for. Kevin


[Modified by Kevs67, 12:18 PM 3/5/2002]

Kevs67

Patrick, What was I thinking? Your right those one piece front ends, I here are awful looking, the one your going with sounds like it will be as good a new. :yesnod: :yesnod:
And if I don't come across a NOS before July I'll be ordering from Sermersheim's
:yesnod: :yesnod: