New Porsche Ferrari, Lambo Fighter
05-30-2011, 03:09 PM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
New Porsche Ferrari, Lambo Fighter
Porsche has plans for a new mid-engined supercar that, if approved by bosses at parent company
Volkswagen, will take it into direct competition with Ferrari, McLaren and sister firm Lamborghini.
Conceived as a regular model rather than a high-priced, limited-edition production special, the new
two-seater is intended to be positioned above the 911 but below the the 918 Spyder. Roadster and
coupé versions are being discussed.
This would pitch the new Porsche into the same price territory as the Ferrari 458 Italia, McLaren
MP4-12C and Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4. The 458 Italia lists at £169,545 in the UK — £59,313
more than Porsche’s most expensive ‘regular’ model, the 911 Turbo.
“We’re looking to extend the range,” Porsche boss Mathias Muller revealed in a recent interview.
“We’ve got an idea to do another mid-engined model. We’re thinking above the 911 but below
the 918 Spyder.”
Muller suggests that the new supercar has already progressed beyond the initial drawing board stage.
“We have ideas on styling and design, which we will continue to develop in the coming months,”
he revealed. “We’ll also evaluate the economic side and then decide [whether to push ahead].”
The Boxster, Cayman and 911 use unitary steel construction, but it is believed that Porsche is considering
extensive use of carbonfibre-reinforced plastic to reduce weight. Recent low-volume models at Porsche,
including the Carrera GT and 911 GT2 RS, have given the firm experience in lightweight construction.
The business case for the new supercar is rumoured to focus on annual global sales of between 2500
and 3000 — around half that of the 911 Turbo and its various derivatives, including the GT2.
An alternative plan to borrow heavily from the second-gen Audi R8’s aluminium spaceframe architecture
was never given serious consideration, according to a senior source. The initial proposals for the new
Porsche supercar follow a similar parts-sharing strategy to that undertaken with the Boxster/Cayman
and 911, which have a 60 per cent commonality.
“It is entirely possible that we could use a front end that’s similar but not necessarily the same as the
911’s, including components such as the axle and suspension,” said our insider. “The rear end wouldn’t
be unlike that of the Boxster/Cayman in architectural terms, just bigger to accommodate a larger mid-
mounted engine and gearbox installation, while providing greater overall length and width than the 911.”
Engine plans are less clear. But to compete with the 458 Italia, Gallardo LP560-4 and MP4-12C, the newPorsche will need in the region of 550bhp to 600bhp.Options include a version of Porsche’s 3.8-litre flat
six, which in its ultimate twin-turbo form, as seen in the GT2 RS, currently kicks out 620bhp. However, insider information lends to the idea of the 4.8 or 5.0 8 cylinder engine found in various racing platforms or the Panamara S or Turbo editions.
Volkswagen, will take it into direct competition with Ferrari, McLaren and sister firm Lamborghini.
Conceived as a regular model rather than a high-priced, limited-edition production special, the new
two-seater is intended to be positioned above the 911 but below the the 918 Spyder. Roadster and
coupé versions are being discussed.
This would pitch the new Porsche into the same price territory as the Ferrari 458 Italia, McLaren
MP4-12C and Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4. The 458 Italia lists at £169,545 in the UK — £59,313
more than Porsche’s most expensive ‘regular’ model, the 911 Turbo.
“We’re looking to extend the range,” Porsche boss Mathias Muller revealed in a recent interview.
“We’ve got an idea to do another mid-engined model. We’re thinking above the 911 but below
the 918 Spyder.”
Muller suggests that the new supercar has already progressed beyond the initial drawing board stage.
“We have ideas on styling and design, which we will continue to develop in the coming months,”
he revealed. “We’ll also evaluate the economic side and then decide [whether to push ahead].”
The Boxster, Cayman and 911 use unitary steel construction, but it is believed that Porsche is considering
extensive use of carbonfibre-reinforced plastic to reduce weight. Recent low-volume models at Porsche,
including the Carrera GT and 911 GT2 RS, have given the firm experience in lightweight construction.
The business case for the new supercar is rumoured to focus on annual global sales of between 2500
and 3000 — around half that of the 911 Turbo and its various derivatives, including the GT2.
An alternative plan to borrow heavily from the second-gen Audi R8’s aluminium spaceframe architecture
was never given serious consideration, according to a senior source. The initial proposals for the new
Porsche supercar follow a similar parts-sharing strategy to that undertaken with the Boxster/Cayman
and 911, which have a 60 per cent commonality.
“It is entirely possible that we could use a front end that’s similar but not necessarily the same as the
911’s, including components such as the axle and suspension,” said our insider. “The rear end wouldn’t
be unlike that of the Boxster/Cayman in architectural terms, just bigger to accommodate a larger mid-
mounted engine and gearbox installation, while providing greater overall length and width than the 911.”
Engine plans are less clear. But to compete with the 458 Italia, Gallardo LP560-4 and MP4-12C, the newPorsche will need in the region of 550bhp to 600bhp.Options include a version of Porsche’s 3.8-litre flat
six, which in its ultimate twin-turbo form, as seen in the GT2 RS, currently kicks out 620bhp. However, insider information lends to the idea of the 4.8 or 5.0 8 cylinder engine found in various racing platforms or the Panamara S or Turbo editions.
05-30-2011, 07:23 PM
#2
Race Director
This is somewhat akin to Chevrolet announcing a $400,000 McLaren-battling exoticar with 800 HP and 22 psi boost supercharger. Chevy does sell quite a few ZR1s, so perhaps there ARE folks who will shell out the BIG bucks for an ultra-super car?
Does every car company really need a super-expensive, ultra-low volume vehicle, as Ford did with the GT? Does it make financial sense in the long run? Or is it more to inflate egos and enable puplication of "bragging rights"?
I do find it hard to believe that Volkswagen, who is no doubt behind the ads touting Porshe 911s as daily rides, would agree to such an expensive undertaking. They want volume and the resulting higher profits, pure and simple!
Does every car company really need a super-expensive, ultra-low volume vehicle, as Ford did with the GT? Does it make financial sense in the long run? Or is it more to inflate egos and enable puplication of "bragging rights"?
I do find it hard to believe that Volkswagen, who is no doubt behind the ads touting Porshe 911s as daily rides, would agree to such an expensive undertaking. They want volume and the resulting higher profits, pure and simple!
05-31-2011, 06:54 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
This is somewhat akin to Chevrolet announcing a $400,000 McLaren-battling exoticar with 800 HP and 22 psi boost supercharger. Chevy does sell quite a few ZR1s, so perhaps there ARE folks who will shell out the BIG bucks for an ultra-super car?
Does every car company really need a super-expensive, ultra-low volume vehicle, as Ford did with the GT? Does it make financial sense in the long run? Or is it more to inflate egos and enable puplication of "bragging rights"?
I do find it hard to believe that Volkswagen, who is no doubt behind the ads touting Porshe 911s as daily rides, would agree to such an expensive undertaking. They want volume and the resulting higher profits, pure and simple!
Does every car company really need a super-expensive, ultra-low volume vehicle, as Ford did with the GT? Does it make financial sense in the long run? Or is it more to inflate egos and enable puplication of "bragging rights"?
I do find it hard to believe that Volkswagen, who is no doubt behind the ads touting Porshe 911s as daily rides, would agree to such an expensive undertaking. They want volume and the resulting higher profits, pure and simple!
05-31-2011, 05:48 PM
#4
Race Director
At $845,000, I'd say they have shown that their ego is huge, alright but someone really should remind them that "just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should."
What else could the purpose of this car be? Fastest? No, Most. expensive? No. Propels Porsche to a status higher than Bugatti, Ferarri, or McLaren? No.
I ask thee, then - what?
What else could the purpose of this car be? Fastest? No, Most. expensive? No. Propels Porsche to a status higher than Bugatti, Ferarri, or McLaren? No.
I ask thee, then - what?
06-01-2011, 06:34 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Why are so worried about it Dave? If they sell them (which they will), then it is a success. I sure as hell would buy a 850K Porsche over an 850K GM vehicle. What do ya think? If someone has the money - it is just that - their money.
Ah yes - and I am sure that the forementioned companies would not want to be in Porsches position. I would say they are just a hair more successful than any one of the companies mentioned.
Ah yes - and I am sure that the forementioned companies would not want to be in Porsches position. I would say they are just a hair more successful than any one of the companies mentioned.
06-01-2011, 10:01 PM
#6
Originally Posted by Dave68
Does every car company really need a super-expensive, ultra-low volume vehicle, as Ford did with the GT? Does it make financial sense in the long run? Or is it more to inflate egos and enable puplication of "bragging rights"?
At $845,000, I'd say they have shown that their ego is huge, alright but someone really should remind them that "just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should."
At $845,000, I'd say they have shown that their ego is huge, alright but someone really should remind them that "just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should."
And now that Ford have produced the GT, no one can rightly claim that Ford has no experience with developing exotic supercars. Same with Lexus for the LFA. A car which cost more than it can hope to regain in direct revenues, but I would argue that the automotive world is a better place, now that Lexus have built it.
Originally Posted by Dave68
At $845,000, I'd say they have shown that their ego is huge, alright but someone really should remind them that "just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should."
What else could the purpose of this car be? Fastest? No, Most. expensive? No. Propels Porsche to a status higher than Bugatti, Ferarri, or McLaren? No.
What else could the purpose of this car be? Fastest? No, Most. expensive? No. Propels Porsche to a status higher than Bugatti, Ferarri, or McLaren? No.
Originally Posted by Dave68
They want volume and the resulting higher profits, pure and simple!
06-01-2011, 11:09 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Porsche has plans for a new mid-engined supercar that, if approved by bosses at parent company
Volkswagen, will take it into direct competition with Ferrari, McLaren and sister firm Lamborghini.
Conceived as a regular model rather than a high-priced, limited-edition production special, the new
two-seater is intended to be positioned above the 911 but below the the 918 Spyder. Roadster and
coupé versions are being discussed.
This would pitch the new Porsche into the same price territory as the Ferrari 458 Italia, McLaren
MP4-12C and Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4. The 458 Italia lists at £169,545 in the UK — £59,313
more than Porsche’s most expensive ‘regular’ model, the 911 Turbo.
“We’re looking to extend the range,” Porsche boss Mathias Muller revealed in a recent interview.
“We’ve got an idea to do another mid-engined model. We’re thinking above the 911 but below
the 918 Spyder.”
Muller suggests that the new supercar has already progressed beyond the initial drawing board stage.
“We have ideas on styling and design, which we will continue to develop in the coming months,”
he revealed. “We’ll also evaluate the economic side and then decide [whether to push ahead].”
The Boxster, Cayman and 911 use unitary steel construction, but it is believed that Porsche is considering
extensive use of carbonfibre-reinforced plastic to reduce weight. Recent low-volume models at Porsche,
including the Carrera GT and 911 GT2 RS, have given the firm experience in lightweight construction.
The business case for the new supercar is rumoured to focus on annual global sales of between 2500
and 3000 — around half that of the 911 Turbo and its various derivatives, including the GT2.
An alternative plan to borrow heavily from the second-gen Audi R8’s aluminium spaceframe architecture
was never given serious consideration, according to a senior source. The initial proposals for the new
Porsche supercar follow a similar parts-sharing strategy to that undertaken with the Boxster/Cayman
and 911, which have a 60 per cent commonality.
“It is entirely possible that we could use a front end that’s similar but not necessarily the same as the
911’s, including components such as the axle and suspension,” said our insider. “The rear end wouldn’t
be unlike that of the Boxster/Cayman in architectural terms, just bigger to accommodate a larger mid-
mounted engine and gearbox installation, while providing greater overall length and width than the 911.”
Engine plans are less clear. But to compete with the 458 Italia, Gallardo LP560-4 and MP4-12C, the newPorsche will need in the region of 550bhp to 600bhp.Options include a version of Porsche’s 3.8-litre flat
six, which in its ultimate twin-turbo form, as seen in the GT2 RS, currently kicks out 620bhp. However, insider information lends to the idea of the 4.8 or 5.0 8 cylinder engine found in various racing platforms or the Panamara S or Turbo editions.
Volkswagen, will take it into direct competition with Ferrari, McLaren and sister firm Lamborghini.
Conceived as a regular model rather than a high-priced, limited-edition production special, the new
two-seater is intended to be positioned above the 911 but below the the 918 Spyder. Roadster and
coupé versions are being discussed.
This would pitch the new Porsche into the same price territory as the Ferrari 458 Italia, McLaren
MP4-12C and Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4. The 458 Italia lists at £169,545 in the UK — £59,313
more than Porsche’s most expensive ‘regular’ model, the 911 Turbo.
“We’re looking to extend the range,” Porsche boss Mathias Muller revealed in a recent interview.
“We’ve got an idea to do another mid-engined model. We’re thinking above the 911 but below
the 918 Spyder.”
Muller suggests that the new supercar has already progressed beyond the initial drawing board stage.
“We have ideas on styling and design, which we will continue to develop in the coming months,”
he revealed. “We’ll also evaluate the economic side and then decide [whether to push ahead].”
The Boxster, Cayman and 911 use unitary steel construction, but it is believed that Porsche is considering
extensive use of carbonfibre-reinforced plastic to reduce weight. Recent low-volume models at Porsche,
including the Carrera GT and 911 GT2 RS, have given the firm experience in lightweight construction.
The business case for the new supercar is rumoured to focus on annual global sales of between 2500
and 3000 — around half that of the 911 Turbo and its various derivatives, including the GT2.
An alternative plan to borrow heavily from the second-gen Audi R8’s aluminium spaceframe architecture
was never given serious consideration, according to a senior source. The initial proposals for the new
Porsche supercar follow a similar parts-sharing strategy to that undertaken with the Boxster/Cayman
and 911, which have a 60 per cent commonality.
“It is entirely possible that we could use a front end that’s similar but not necessarily the same as the
911’s, including components such as the axle and suspension,” said our insider. “The rear end wouldn’t
be unlike that of the Boxster/Cayman in architectural terms, just bigger to accommodate a larger mid-
mounted engine and gearbox installation, while providing greater overall length and width than the 911.”
Engine plans are less clear. But to compete with the 458 Italia, Gallardo LP560-4 and MP4-12C, the newPorsche will need in the region of 550bhp to 600bhp.Options include a version of Porsche’s 3.8-litre flat
six, which in its ultimate twin-turbo form, as seen in the GT2 RS, currently kicks out 620bhp. However, insider information lends to the idea of the 4.8 or 5.0 8 cylinder engine found in various racing platforms or the Panamara S or Turbo editions.
06-01-2011, 11:25 PM
#9
Race Director
Wow, what a crazy idea. A business with an intent to make money. Crazy capitalists, huh? Perhaps all companies should just start making cars that people need, not what they want. Or maybe they should adopt the old GM model and strive for billions of dollars in yearly losses.
Dave: I will be the 1st in line for this car (my definite 1st choice) or possibly a Ford GT TT.
06-02-2011, 01:11 AM
#10
Fortunately, Porsche does not build their business decisions around fanboys. They have abandoned super low production volume a long time ago. Even Ferrari are not immune to the obvious benefits of volume production. In '93, they vowed to produce no more than 3500 cars per year. By 2000, they sold 4000. By 2500, it was 5000. They are on target for ~7000 units by the end of this year, and there are reports that 8000 is a target for the near future.
06-02-2011, 02:46 AM
#11
Melting Slicks
HHhhmm don't know about this ? Was the ugly carbon Porsche Carrera GT a hit ? Went like the clappers but not sure if it was a sales success ? They did make 1270 of them at a U.S. Retail price of $440k. I guess a new model of bad *** super car will just take off where the Carrera GT left off. It ceased production in 2006 maybe they think they need a better flag ship than a 911 ? Stewy
06-02-2011, 10:18 AM
#13
Race Director
Fortunately, Porsche does not build their business decisions around fanboys. They have abandoned super low production volume a long time ago. Even Ferrari are not immune to the obvious benefits of volume production. In '93, they vowed to produce no more than 3500 cars per year. By 2000, they sold 4000. By 2500, it was 5000. They are on target for ~7000 units by the end of this year, and there are reports that 8000 is a target for the near future.
06-02-2011, 10:19 AM
#14
Race Director
06-03-2011, 02:31 AM
#15
Melting Slicks
Dave you have mentioned Porches profit margins several times in other posts ? Porsches are significantly cheaper than Ferrari's so does this mean Ferrari is a bigger rip off ! Stewy
06-03-2011, 02:54 AM
#16
Melting Slicks
I actually remember our local car magazine with a photo of a 348 fezza and a Toyota MR2 parked nose to nose. They both looked very similar when comparing them. When the cars are on there own they don't anything like each other. Stewy
06-03-2011, 10:11 AM
#17
Race Director
I have read more than once that Porsche generates more profit per vehicle than any other car manufacturer (kinda like Apple, here in the US with electronics). Most likely, the comparison is to manufacturers that produce a minimum number of vehicles. Perhaps Ferrari does not meet this minimum number?
Dave
