Is the Z/28 Camaro considered a failure?
12-15-2014, 04:42 PM
#21
Drifting
A track oriented car, albeit with a very limited market of potential buyers. This new Z/28 is not a failure according to how it performs and what has been written about it. Only if you measure success in terms of sales volume could it remotely be determined to be a failure, and that verdict is not in as yet.
12-15-2014, 04:45 PM
#22
Safety Car
I titled this as a question to make people think.
Why? Because according to several posters on here the Z06 is a failure because it's tune is allowing to be beaten IN A STRAIGHT line by some very serious competition.
However, I am curious how a car is a failure when we have seen no head to heads quantifying its most important performance metric against other cars. Handling and road course times. The Z/28, even at a stout 75k(for a Camaro) is praised far and wide among enthusiasts and the press as being one of the greats, yet in a straight line it's only so-so. Why is it that the Vette is getting skewered BEFORE we see if it can do what its mission in life is yet the Camaro hasn't been.
Just wondering.
PS: Chevrolet NEVER said this car was a drag strip king so although I wish it was beating the cars it's lost to in vids already, right outta the box bone stock, I will not fault GM since they never advertised it would. I am waiting for the track comparos to base any judgment since GM DID say THIS area is where it will rule. I am not gonna speculate on the pulled timing tune causing it to lose to xxx. I will let the emipirical rsults be my guide. If it goes head to head with a Viper, 911, GTR etc and smokes em' then mission accomplished GM in my book. They said it would and it did. If not, THEN I will have to call a spade a spade.
Why? Because according to several posters on here the Z06 is a failure because it's tune is allowing to be beaten IN A STRAIGHT line by some very serious competition.
However, I am curious how a car is a failure when we have seen no head to heads quantifying its most important performance metric against other cars. Handling and road course times. The Z/28, even at a stout 75k(for a Camaro) is praised far and wide among enthusiasts and the press as being one of the greats, yet in a straight line it's only so-so. Why is it that the Vette is getting skewered BEFORE we see if it can do what its mission in life is yet the Camaro hasn't been.
Just wondering.
PS: Chevrolet NEVER said this car was a drag strip king so although I wish it was beating the cars it's lost to in vids already, right outta the box bone stock, I will not fault GM since they never advertised it would. I am waiting for the track comparos to base any judgment since GM DID say THIS area is where it will rule. I am not gonna speculate on the pulled timing tune causing it to lose to xxx. I will let the emipirical rsults be my guide. If it goes head to head with a Viper, 911, GTR etc and smokes em' then mission accomplished GM in my book. They said it would and it did. If not, THEN I will have to call a spade a spade.
But it so far has not performed in acceleration tests like a 650/650 car was expected to perform. The Z28 in contrast exceeded road course expectations and accelerates in line with a 505/475 rating.
12-15-2014, 04:54 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
2. I can use any avatar I like. I like fast cars, not just Corvettes.
3. You have been on this board a month. So if you give up on this forum then all I can say to you is bye.
12-15-2014, 05:05 PM
#24
Got Boost?!
The Z/28 is successful. It wasn't over hyped and does exactly what it was intended to do, and killing cars that belong in the class of the Z06 (GTR, etc). No known issues as far as the ECU and engine go, probably because they went with a proven 427 LS7 505hp NA engine that gets the job done. The new LT4 engine is still being tested so we will have to wait and see how great it really is. I think the C7 Z06 is a great car, but the issue that pops up is that people were expecting better acceleration. The car is trapping at lower speeds than the C6 Z06 and the ZR1, which I think has upset a lot of people. We already know that the lower speeds are due to drag and weight, which I can live with.
What many of us want to know is about this heat soak / ECU timing issue....once the car has been taken to the track by our hardcore forum members then I am sure we will start to get some real input on how great this car really is. Until then we can only rely on what little info we've been given by the car mags. I want to wait and see the opinions of the real hardcore owners who know how to track their car before I pass judgement on this newly released Z06.
What many of us want to know is about this heat soak / ECU timing issue....once the car has been taken to the track by our hardcore forum members then I am sure we will start to get some real input on how great this car really is. Until then we can only rely on what little info we've been given by the car mags. I want to wait and see the opinions of the real hardcore owners who know how to track their car before I pass judgement on this newly released Z06.
12-15-2014, 05:13 PM
#25
So this is a Camaro forum now as well?
12-15-2014, 06:52 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
Dont patronize me. Ive been in the game for many years.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brembo-Front...-/271331486004
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brembo-Front...-/271331486004
12-15-2014, 06:59 PM
#28
Safety Car
Point is I still don't see how you couldn't build as good of a car for less starting with a 20k Camaro and the things I listed. CCB's are irrelevant to that.
12-15-2014, 07:11 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
12-15-2014, 07:20 PM
#30
What universe do these people live in that they don't want A/C in a street car?Honestly I feel that the car is just a marketing gimmick and appeals to collectors more than track rats (who are MUCH better off starting with a less expensive C6Z as the foundation for a track car)
12-15-2014, 07:45 PM
#32
Safety Car
Why would GM pick such a heavy car to be their "track rat" car? They take a 3800lb porker as their foundation? I mean, I am sorry, but what the hell? Then they try to reverse this by stripping out A/C? What universe do these people live in that they don't want A/C in a street car?
Honestly I feel that the car is just a marketing gimmick and appeals to collectors more than track rats (who are MUCH better off starting with a less expensive C6Z as the foundation for a track car)
What universe do these people live in that they don't want A/C in a street car?Honestly I feel that the car is just a marketing gimmick and appeals to collectors more than track rats (who are MUCH better off starting with a less expensive C6Z as the foundation for a track car)
There is a separate market segment for fast pony cars in various iterations. You have the boss mustang which will now be the GT 350, GT500's, Hellcats etc. Some guys just want something different.
It does, however, seem ill advised for GM to make a car so heavily track oriented like the C7Z and then power it with a SC and allow the weight to be so heavy. Conflict of interest and seemingly trying to make everyone happy with two contradictory ideals.
12-15-2014, 10:26 PM
#33
Drifting
Many people just don't want to admit that the new Z has been a real letdown performance wise. GM didn't do themselves any favors by talking about how it was going to make the C6 obsolete
12-15-2014, 10:33 PM
#34
GM did a Great job on the Z28 for what it does considering its a Camaro. The problem is there is a very small market for a stripped out Camaro for $76K.by the time production ends in 2015 they will be discounted heavily.
12-15-2014, 10:37 PM
#35
Got Boost?!
I'd be interested in one for $50k, other than that I'll wait for the new Z06 to be discounted
12-15-2014, 11:30 PM
#36
The Z/28 and any current gen Camaro reminds me of a very large cinder block. Like the GT-R, it defies all the laws of physics to deliver what I consider to be incredible performance. A car that large, that performs as well as it does, is impressive to me.
Considering what the Camaro platform was able to deliver, I had such high hopes for the ZO6. I am also VERY interested to see how the ZO6 does around a road course in comparison to its competitors. Like JoesC5 stated though, I can't help but wonder why zero road course info has been provided...especially since we've heard time and again how this new ZO6 was able to beat C6ZR1 times on its first outing. We will know soon enough.
Considering what the Camaro platform was able to deliver, I had such high hopes for the ZO6. I am also VERY interested to see how the ZO6 does around a road course in comparison to its competitors. Like JoesC5 stated though, I can't help but wonder why zero road course info has been provided...especially since we've heard time and again how this new ZO6 was able to beat C6ZR1 times on its first outing. We will know soon enough.
12-15-2014, 11:45 PM
#38
Scraping the splitter.
Why would GM pick such a heavy car to be their "track rat" car? They take a 3800lb porker as their foundation? I mean, I am sorry, but what the hell? Then they try to reverse this by stripping out A/C? What universe do these people live in that they don't want A/C in a street car?
Honestly I feel that the car is just a marketing gimmick and appeals to collectors more than track rats (who are MUCH better off starting with a less expensive C6Z as the foundation for a track car)
What universe do these people live in that they don't want A/C in a street car?Honestly I feel that the car is just a marketing gimmick and appeals to collectors more than track rats (who are MUCH better off starting with a less expensive C6Z as the foundation for a track car)
Of course, your logic doesn't apply to a 3883# GT-R, right?
A heavier car, on smaller tires, with less braking and a DCT tranny that is well known to overheat on-track mid-session with an intermediate/advanced level driver.
Note: you won't have to swap out the factory rotors on the Z28, nor will you have to change tires, go to a higher viscosity f/r diff fluid or do a tranny service when tranny fluid temps hit 260*.
S.
12-16-2014, 12:09 AM
#39
Instructor
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Clearwater Fl
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a confusing thread but I understand what the OP is trying to get at here. The Z/28 appears to be the real deal for what it was intended for. All out NA road race track car.
The C7Z on the other hand was labeled as a Supercar before it even hit the showroom floors. It also has to outperform its predessor, the C6Z which turned the performance/$ car industry upside down in 2006. And it has to be as fast or faster than the C6ZR1 which doesn't look close yet.That pretty much sums it up.
I am surprised GM didn't catch these issues sooner with all of its experience with the LSA platform. Packaging of this small blower spun this high is an issue. This is not an easy fix after driving and modding (2) LSA platform cars over the past 3 years. Forget about adding boost to this C7Z if its suffering from heat soak from the factory pulley. That is the first basic mod to LSA with a tune.
No need to compare the Z/28. it's doing work.
The C7Z on the other hand was labeled as a Supercar before it even hit the showroom floors. It also has to outperform its predessor, the C6Z which turned the performance/$ car industry upside down in 2006. And it has to be as fast or faster than the C6ZR1 which doesn't look close yet.That pretty much sums it up.
I am surprised GM didn't catch these issues sooner with all of its experience with the LSA platform. Packaging of this small blower spun this high is an issue. This is not an easy fix after driving and modding (2) LSA platform cars over the past 3 years. Forget about adding boost to this C7Z if its suffering from heat soak from the factory pulley. That is the first basic mod to LSA with a tune.
No need to compare the Z/28. it's doing work.
Last edited by clevay; 12-16-2014 at 12:11 AM.
12-16-2014, 12:20 AM
#40
No interest in what a Camaro does!!