C7 Z06 vs. Hellcat - video
01-08-2015, 06:46 AM
#421
At least that explains the roll results. For the price of a Z06 you could have a hellcat and a nice something else too
01-08-2015, 06:25 PM
#422
Melting Slicks
well going true the pages I have to be honest it was entertaining!
c7z faster on the track, no traction, bad weather, the road was to straight, driver mod or what ever else you guys come up with. that car had his *** dragged in that video for what ever the reason was! a loss is a loss, in the world of street racing you get beat, you got beat! you dont shoot your mouth off with excuses you take it under the chin and try next time. I dont know if its sad a thing all you guys posted all those excuses or good like All for one and one for all?
c7z faster on the track, no traction, bad weather, the road was to straight, driver mod or what ever else you guys come up with. that car had his *** dragged in that video for what ever the reason was! a loss is a loss, in the world of street racing you get beat, you got beat! you dont shoot your mouth off with excuses you take it under the chin and try next time. I dont know if its sad a thing all you guys posted all those excuses or good like All for one and one for all?
01-08-2015, 06:26 PM
#423
I just look at the 0-60 times that tells me which car is faster. Personally I dont care if your car is faster if were still racing 2 min later I dont care how many hp your car has a semi has 1000hp I dont care how qick you can do your turn or from 60-140mph that your car is faster bottom line from the time we are at a complete stop to 60 gives you more than enough time to prove me wrong and give you props that your car is faster. This may not be the right way to determine which car is and I use this word broadly faster if its not .1 second faster then please gtfo of my face
thats what she said
ITS HUGE!!!
01-08-2015, 06:54 PM
#424
Drifting
???
01-08-2015, 07:09 PM
#425
Drifting
01-08-2015, 07:46 PM
#426
Le Mans Master
I am just hearing the hellcat just knocked off a 10.48 on drag radials in south texas. 11.05 on stock tires. No shiznit. Gathering more info!
Edinburg raceway facebook page has some info
Edinburg raceway facebook page has some info
01-08-2015, 08:05 PM
#427
Instructor
Regards,
Viper
01-08-2015, 08:34 PM
#429
Safety Car
NO way that a car traps 126 on stock tires, and then another goes 133 mph on drag radials at the same track, same day. Even the car on stock tires had traction, based on that 1.7x 60' time on the slip. The big mph difference tells us some power was added. That 126 is in line with the Hellcat we tested last weekend.
01-08-2015, 09:05 PM
#430
Melting Slicks
NO way that a car traps 126 on stock tires, and then another goes 133 mph on drag radials at the same track, same day. Even the car on stock tires had traction, based on that 1.7x 60' time on the slip. The big mph difference tells us some power was added. That 126 is in line with the Hellcat we tested last weekend.
They said they twisted a drive shaft on one and Detroit overnighted another one for them.
They will be at it again tomorrow to try for even better times.
I know the MPH pickup is eye popping...........
01-08-2015, 09:56 PM
#431
01-08-2015, 10:29 PM
#432
Heel & Toe
Member Since: Sep 2014
Location: Bilings Montana
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Need different Cylinder Heads ?
If Chevy wants the Vette Engine to be king of the hill again; they are going to have to go with a canted valve cylinder head similar to the NASCAR RO7 racing head, Why they keep sticking with an inline valve head is beyond me. Sure the LS3/LS7/LS9/LT1/LT4 Flow good numbers but they will never flow as good as a Hemispherical Combustion Chamber like the SRT Challenger's Hemi engine or even a Semi-hemi head like the RO7 or MK lV Big Block heads.If NASCAR thought the inline valve head was better they would be using that configuration; Their Not ! Those engines unrestricted are putting out over 850hp with a flat tappet Cam so it should be no problem for Chevy Engineers to make a reliable 750hp street engine with the use of those Cylinder heads.
Can you imagine how much worse it would have been for the ZO6 if that SRT Hemi engine had been in the Viper which is already lighter with the V10. The Challenger is 915 lbs heavier than the ZO6. Still haven't figured Chrysler out on that one. The Viper to Dodge is what the Vette is to Chevrolet; so why do you put your premium engine in a Production Type Street Car that weighs close to 4500 lbs. Come on Chevy, that LS Design Engine should of have Canted-Valve heads years ago, Get with the Program; you embarrassing hardcore Vette People..LOL!
Can you imagine how much worse it would have been for the ZO6 if that SRT Hemi engine had been in the Viper which is already lighter with the V10. The Challenger is 915 lbs heavier than the ZO6. Still haven't figured Chrysler out on that one. The Viper to Dodge is what the Vette is to Chevrolet; so why do you put your premium engine in a Production Type Street Car that weighs close to 4500 lbs. Come on Chevy, that LS Design Engine should of have Canted-Valve heads years ago, Get with the Program; you embarrassing hardcore Vette People..LOL!
01-08-2015, 11:40 PM
#433
NO way that a car traps 126 on stock tires, and then another goes 133 mph on drag radials at the same track, same day. Even the car on stock tires had traction, based on that 1.7x 60' time on the slip. The big mph difference tells us some power was added. That 126 is in line with the Hellcat we tested last weekend.
Nineball is the same Hellcat from your drag strip day?
01-09-2015, 07:37 AM
#434
Safety Car
01-09-2015, 08:17 AM
#436
Race Director
If Chevy wants the Vette Engine to be king of the hill again; they are going to have to go with a canted valve cylinder head similar to the NASCAR RO7 racing head, Why they keep sticking with an inline valve head is beyond me. Sure the LS3/LS7/LS9/LT1/LT4 Flow good numbers but they will never flow as good as a Hemispherical Combustion Chamber like the SRT Challenger's Hemi engine or even a Semi-hemi head like the RO7 or MK lV Big Block heads.If NASCAR thought the inline valve head was better they would be using that configuration; Their Not ! Those engines unrestricted are putting out over 850hp with a flat tappet Cam so it should be no problem for Chevy Engineers to make a reliable 750hp street engine with the use of those Cylinder heads.
Can you imagine how much worse it would have been for the ZO6 if that SRT Hemi engine had been in the Viper which is already lighter with the V10. The Challenger is 915 lbs heavier than the ZO6. Still haven't figured Chrysler out on that one. The Viper to Dodge is what the Vette is to Chevrolet; so why do you put your premium engine in a Production Type Street Car that weighs close to 4500 lbs. Come on Chevy, that LS Design Engine should of have Canted-Valve heads years ago, Get with the Program; you embarrassing hardcore Vette People..LOL!
Can you imagine how much worse it would have been for the ZO6 if that SRT Hemi engine had been in the Viper which is already lighter with the V10. The Challenger is 915 lbs heavier than the ZO6. Still haven't figured Chrysler out on that one. The Viper to Dodge is what the Vette is to Chevrolet; so why do you put your premium engine in a Production Type Street Car that weighs close to 4500 lbs. Come on Chevy, that LS Design Engine should of have Canted-Valve heads years ago, Get with the Program; you embarrassing hardcore Vette People..LOL!
I don't think the supercharged hemi v8 fits in the viper engine bay and that's why there is no viper s/c hemi to run ....or so it's been said...
Would have been cool to offer that engine combo up.
I wouldn't go so far as to say gm engineers should be embarrassed about the LT4 or the z06. Gm is more focused on total package utilization vs government fuel economy etc....and determined 650 hp and tq to the ground was where they wanted to be.
Fords coming out with an 800 hp monster or so the rumors go...
should keep getting interesting as the manufacturers fight for sales.
01-09-2015, 08:59 AM
#437
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jul 2001
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 3,284
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
OK, haven't been here in a few years because I haven't owned a Corvette since about 2008. But having owned two Corvettes (1999 and 2005 models) and two Challengers (2009 and 2015 SRT) I figured I'd put in my two pennies.
First of all, I find it very hard to believe that the second race only went to 110 MPH. The race was started at about 50 MPH (looks about right from the video), followed by 11 seconds of full throttle acceleration: Z06 let off after about 11.5 seconds. Both the Z06 and Hellcat will reach 135 to 140 MPH in 11.5 seconds starting at 50 MPH.
Being "active" on the Challenger forum since that's my current car, when I first saw the video, my response was that given the weight difference between the cars and the better aerodynamics of the Z06, the Z06 should have at least gained ground at some points during that 11.5 seconds. Instead the Hellcat creeped on the Z06 the entire time with the Z06 falling back very slowly the whole time. My conclusion was that there was something wrong with this run and maybe the Z06 had bad gas, the ECU was pulling power (I had read that it slows down when it heats up), or something.
Further research led me to my answer. When I saw the 186 MPH drag limited top speed of the Z06, that was part of the answer. The Hellcat actually has a better drag coefficient and is sleeker than the Z06. That floored me. I understand why (the emphasis on downforce on the Z06) but the Z06 top speed of 186 versus the Helcat's 199 tells part of the story. The faster you go, the less weight matters and the more advantage the Hellcat will have because you are doing more to push the air out of the way than you are to accelerate the mass of the car.
The second part of the story lies in the torque curve of the LS4 versus the Hemi. The Z06 actually develops more torque quicker than the Hellcat (the Z06 has more torque at 3000 RPM for example). But up top (beyond about 4500 RPM), the Z06 actually gets a bit "wheezy". The Hellcat's torque curve from 4500 to 6000 RPM is so flat that it only differs by 20 lb/ft over that entire range. The Z06 loses 80 lb/ft of torque between 4500 and 6000 RPM and more than 100 lb/ft by the 6500 redline.
So for me, all things are now explained. Fat tires, lower weight, and a big low end make the Z06 faster on the strip because what counts there is how fast you can get moving. From a roll, both cars will spend most of their time at high RPM (4500 and up between each gear) and there, the Hellcat has the advantage due to the flat torque curve and (believe it or not) sleeker aerodynamics. Given the factors involved, I think the outcome in this video is going to be the norm for a Z06 racing a Hellcat from a roll. I'm sure we'll see some Z06 wins because the cars are pretty close from a roll, but it looks like the Z06 is going to be outgunned by the Hellcat from a roll more often than not.
BTW, divorce, having two kids 50% of the time, and only being able to own one nice car is the only reason a C7 isn't sitting in my garage right now. The 2015 SRT is the best of both worlds for me at the current time since being able to turn 12.3 @ 114 MPH (stock) and still being able to haul my two kids plus one friend each in the same car is a solution I can live with. Not to mention being able to go to Lowe's and throw a 20 gallon replacement water tank in the trunk. Once the ex is "paid off" though in another 3 years, I've got my eye on a nice C7.
Cheers to my fellow Vette friends.
Mike
First of all, I find it very hard to believe that the second race only went to 110 MPH. The race was started at about 50 MPH (looks about right from the video), followed by 11 seconds of full throttle acceleration: Z06 let off after about 11.5 seconds. Both the Z06 and Hellcat will reach 135 to 140 MPH in 11.5 seconds starting at 50 MPH.
Being "active" on the Challenger forum since that's my current car, when I first saw the video, my response was that given the weight difference between the cars and the better aerodynamics of the Z06, the Z06 should have at least gained ground at some points during that 11.5 seconds. Instead the Hellcat creeped on the Z06 the entire time with the Z06 falling back very slowly the whole time. My conclusion was that there was something wrong with this run and maybe the Z06 had bad gas, the ECU was pulling power (I had read that it slows down when it heats up), or something.
Further research led me to my answer. When I saw the 186 MPH drag limited top speed of the Z06, that was part of the answer. The Hellcat actually has a better drag coefficient and is sleeker than the Z06. That floored me. I understand why (the emphasis on downforce on the Z06) but the Z06 top speed of 186 versus the Helcat's 199 tells part of the story. The faster you go, the less weight matters and the more advantage the Hellcat will have because you are doing more to push the air out of the way than you are to accelerate the mass of the car.
The second part of the story lies in the torque curve of the LS4 versus the Hemi. The Z06 actually develops more torque quicker than the Hellcat (the Z06 has more torque at 3000 RPM for example). But up top (beyond about 4500 RPM), the Z06 actually gets a bit "wheezy". The Hellcat's torque curve from 4500 to 6000 RPM is so flat that it only differs by 20 lb/ft over that entire range. The Z06 loses 80 lb/ft of torque between 4500 and 6000 RPM and more than 100 lb/ft by the 6500 redline.
So for me, all things are now explained. Fat tires, lower weight, and a big low end make the Z06 faster on the strip because what counts there is how fast you can get moving. From a roll, both cars will spend most of their time at high RPM (4500 and up between each gear) and there, the Hellcat has the advantage due to the flat torque curve and (believe it or not) sleeker aerodynamics. Given the factors involved, I think the outcome in this video is going to be the norm for a Z06 racing a Hellcat from a roll. I'm sure we'll see some Z06 wins because the cars are pretty close from a roll, but it looks like the Z06 is going to be outgunned by the Hellcat from a roll more often than not.
BTW, divorce, having two kids 50% of the time, and only being able to own one nice car is the only reason a C7 isn't sitting in my garage right now. The 2015 SRT is the best of both worlds for me at the current time since being able to turn 12.3 @ 114 MPH (stock) and still being able to haul my two kids plus one friend each in the same car is a solution I can live with. Not to mention being able to go to Lowe's and throw a 20 gallon replacement water tank in the trunk. Once the ex is "paid off" though in another 3 years, I've got my eye on a nice C7.
Cheers to my fellow Vette friends.
Mike
Last edited by mikeyc6; 01-09-2015 at 09:03 AM.
01-09-2015, 09:30 AM
#438
Team Owner
http://www.hellcat.org/threads/hellc...ace-fuel.2226/
More info there
Two different cars, different days. The 10.4 was MS109 and Drag tires. Still 10.4 with that is AMAZING.
More info there
Two different cars, different days. The 10.4 was MS109 and Drag tires. Still 10.4 with that is AMAZING.
01-09-2015, 01:12 PM
#439
133 does seem a bit suspect, but given it was run at -1000+ below sea level and on MS109, I guess anything is possible. If the ECU handles A/F and timing at WOT like our cars, the MS109 could not only be eliminating any possible KR, but it could also be leaning the A/F a bit in open loop WOT operation. MS109 is not only oxygenated and runs leaner (stoic at 13.41), it also has a fairly fast burn rate (specifc gravity of .722). If those cars are tuned very rich for WOT operation like our cars, a full tank of MS109 would lean out the A/F at WOT in open loop.
I still think a 133 for a 4400 lbs car would still be out of reach ...even with dr's, mine shaft air, and race fuel.
I still think a 133 for a 4400 lbs car would still be out of reach ...even with dr's, mine shaft air, and race fuel.
Last edited by FNBADAZ06; 01-09-2015 at 01:23 PM.
01-09-2015, 01:13 PM
#440
Race Director
OK, haven't been here in a few years because I haven't owned a Corvette since about 2008. But having owned two Corvettes (1999 and 2005 models) and two Challengers (2009 and 2015 SRT) I figured I'd put in my two pennies.
First of all, I find it very hard to believe that the second race only went to 110 MPH. The race was started at about 50 MPH (looks about right from the video), followed by 11 seconds of full throttle acceleration: Z06 let off after about 11.5 seconds. Both the Z06 and Hellcat will reach 135 to 140 MPH in 11.5 seconds starting at 50 MPH.
Being "active" on the Challenger forum since that's my current car, when I first saw the video, my response was that given the weight difference between the cars and the better aerodynamics of the Z06, the Z06 should have at least gained ground at some points during that 11.5 seconds. Instead the Hellcat creeped on the Z06 the entire time with the Z06 falling back very slowly the whole time. My conclusion was that there was something wrong with this run and maybe the Z06 had bad gas, the ECU was pulling power (I had read that it slows down when it heats up), or something.
Further research led me to my answer. When I saw the 186 MPH drag limited top speed of the Z06, that was part of the answer. The Hellcat actually has a better drag coefficient and is sleeker than the Z06. That floored me. I understand why (the emphasis on downforce on the Z06) but the Z06 top speed of 186 versus the Helcat's 199 tells part of the story. The faster you go, the less weight matters and the more advantage the Hellcat will have because you are doing more to push the air out of the way than you are to accelerate the mass of the car.
The second part of the story lies in the torque curve of the LS4 versus the Hemi. The Z06 actually develops more torque quicker than the Hellcat (the Z06 has more torque at 3000 RPM for example). But up top (beyond about 4500 RPM), the Z06 actually gets a bit "wheezy". The Hellcat's torque curve from 4500 to 6000 RPM is so flat that it only differs by 20 lb/ft over that entire range. The Z06 loses 80 lb/ft of torque between 4500 and 6000 RPM and more than 100 lb/ft by the 6500 redline.
So for me, all things are now explained. Fat tires, lower weight, and a big low end make the Z06 faster on the strip because what counts there is how fast you can get moving. From a roll, both cars will spend most of their time at high RPM (4500 and up between each gear) and there, the Hellcat has the advantage due to the flat torque curve and (believe it or not) sleeker aerodynamics. Given the factors involved, I think the outcome in this video is going to be the norm for a Z06 racing a Hellcat from a roll. I'm sure we'll see some Z06 wins because the cars are pretty close from a roll, but it looks like the Z06 is going to be outgunned by the Hellcat from a roll more often than not.
BTW, divorce, having two kids 50% of the time, and only being able to own one nice car is the only reason a C7 isn't sitting in my garage right now. The 2015 SRT is the best of both worlds for me at the current time since being able to turn 12.3 @ 114 MPH (stock) and still being able to haul my two kids plus one friend each in the same car is a solution I can live with. Not to mention being able to go to Lowe's and throw a 20 gallon replacement water tank in the trunk. Once the ex is "paid off" though in another 3 years, I've got my eye on a nice C7.
Cheers to my fellow Vette friends.
Mike
First of all, I find it very hard to believe that the second race only went to 110 MPH. The race was started at about 50 MPH (looks about right from the video), followed by 11 seconds of full throttle acceleration: Z06 let off after about 11.5 seconds. Both the Z06 and Hellcat will reach 135 to 140 MPH in 11.5 seconds starting at 50 MPH.
Being "active" on the Challenger forum since that's my current car, when I first saw the video, my response was that given the weight difference between the cars and the better aerodynamics of the Z06, the Z06 should have at least gained ground at some points during that 11.5 seconds. Instead the Hellcat creeped on the Z06 the entire time with the Z06 falling back very slowly the whole time. My conclusion was that there was something wrong with this run and maybe the Z06 had bad gas, the ECU was pulling power (I had read that it slows down when it heats up), or something.
Further research led me to my answer. When I saw the 186 MPH drag limited top speed of the Z06, that was part of the answer. The Hellcat actually has a better drag coefficient and is sleeker than the Z06. That floored me. I understand why (the emphasis on downforce on the Z06) but the Z06 top speed of 186 versus the Helcat's 199 tells part of the story. The faster you go, the less weight matters and the more advantage the Hellcat will have because you are doing more to push the air out of the way than you are to accelerate the mass of the car.
The second part of the story lies in the torque curve of the LS4 versus the Hemi. The Z06 actually develops more torque quicker than the Hellcat (the Z06 has more torque at 3000 RPM for example). But up top (beyond about 4500 RPM), the Z06 actually gets a bit "wheezy". The Hellcat's torque curve from 4500 to 6000 RPM is so flat that it only differs by 20 lb/ft over that entire range. The Z06 loses 80 lb/ft of torque between 4500 and 6000 RPM and more than 100 lb/ft by the 6500 redline.
So for me, all things are now explained. Fat tires, lower weight, and a big low end make the Z06 faster on the strip because what counts there is how fast you can get moving. From a roll, both cars will spend most of their time at high RPM (4500 and up between each gear) and there, the Hellcat has the advantage due to the flat torque curve and (believe it or not) sleeker aerodynamics. Given the factors involved, I think the outcome in this video is going to be the norm for a Z06 racing a Hellcat from a roll. I'm sure we'll see some Z06 wins because the cars are pretty close from a roll, but it looks like the Z06 is going to be outgunned by the Hellcat from a roll more often than not.
BTW, divorce, having two kids 50% of the time, and only being able to own one nice car is the only reason a C7 isn't sitting in my garage right now. The 2015 SRT is the best of both worlds for me at the current time since being able to turn 12.3 @ 114 MPH (stock) and still being able to haul my two kids plus one friend each in the same car is a solution I can live with. Not to mention being able to go to Lowe's and throw a 20 gallon replacement water tank in the trunk. Once the ex is "paid off" though in another 3 years, I've got my eye on a nice C7.
Cheers to my fellow Vette friends.
Mike
The SRT challenger rocks....
Enjoy.