I Gave the 2015 Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat a Bath
03-26-2015, 10:15 PM
#61
Race Director
At an autocross, even a stock 93 miata would absolutely destroy that car, and it would be hilarious. I would even put money on my cobalt ss against it at autox. The thing is a tank, has suspension made for a tank, and has way too high of a cg. The only thing it has going for it is gobs of power, but in fact in many cases too much power is a disadvantage because you have less control over the throttle. In a tight track, you have very little to zero opportunity to put even half the power down that a hellcat makes. Some people even de-tune their car, add restrictor plates, and lower the power based on the track to get better throttle control, so more power isn't always better. It's all about what you want to use the car for. There is always the best car for the application. All I'm saying is this is not a real driver's car. It's a brick with a giant engine meant for your average Joe to bang through the gears down the 1/4. It's hardly an amazing feat of engineering.
That's a bit of an exaggeration...
While the Miata would be more FUN on an autoX course, it just may get its *** handed to it by a Hellcat.
Let's look at Willow Springs lap times, which is a fairly technical track:
Charger Hellcat - 1:26:87
Chally Scat Pack - 1:25:76
NC Miata - 1:35:91
So, 9 seconds slower than a Hellcat, and 10 s slower than the lighter Scat Pack.
Yes, an autoX is even tighter and more challenging, but I highly doubt a stock Miata can make up that much time. Still don't believe me? Let's look at MT's figure 8s:
Chally Hellcat: 24.7s @ 0.85g average, 0.94g peak
NC Miata: 26.0 @ 0.69g average
Somehow we're supposed to believe a car that's 9 sec faster at Willow, 1.3s faster in a figure 8 at 0.16g higher average, will somehow get dusted on an autoX course?
While the Miata would be more FUN on an autoX course, it just may get its *** handed to it by a Hellcat.
Let's look at Willow Springs lap times, which is a fairly technical track:
Charger Hellcat - 1:26:87
Chally Scat Pack - 1:25:76
NC Miata - 1:35:91
So, 9 seconds slower than a Hellcat, and 10 s slower than the lighter Scat Pack.
Yes, an autoX is even tighter and more challenging, but I highly doubt a stock Miata can make up that much time. Still don't believe me? Let's look at MT's figure 8s:
Chally Hellcat: 24.7s @ 0.85g average, 0.94g peak
NC Miata: 26.0 @ 0.69g average
Somehow we're supposed to believe a car that's 9 sec faster at Willow, 1.3s faster in a figure 8 at 0.16g higher average, will somehow get dusted on an autoX course?
03-27-2015, 03:14 PM
#62
Race Director
You can look at autocross times for 3 hours and not find a single car in the top 20 that weighs over 4000 lbs. In fact, take a look at this article and tell me what the average weight of the best autocross cars is:
http://www.sccastartingline.com/_the...ompetition.php
The autocross leaders would laugh at a 4500 lb Hellcat. It would be completely out of its element.
http://www.sccastartingline.com/_the...ompetition.php
The autocross leaders would laugh at a 4500 lb Hellcat. It would be completely out of its element.
03-27-2015, 08:18 PM
#63
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You can look at autocross times for 3 hours and not find a single car in the top 20 that weighs over 4000 lbs. In fact, take a look at this article and tell me what the average weight of the best autocross cars is:
http://www.sccastartingline.com/_the...ompetition.php
The autocross leaders would laugh at a 4500 lb Hellcat. It would be completely out of its element.
http://www.sccastartingline.com/_the...ompetition.php
The autocross leaders would laugh at a 4500 lb Hellcat. It would be completely out of its element.
The original comment was that a bone stock, 1993 NA Miata would "absolutely destroy" a stock Hellcat. There's a big gap between a stock 1993 Miata and the top of the AutoX list...
People regard a 4300 lbs BMW M5 as a world class sport sedan. Put a 200 lbs passenger in it, and all of a sudden 4500 lbs is a tank with intolerable CG?
03-27-2015, 10:28 PM
#64
Le Mans Master
Who said anything about being in the top 20?
The original comment was that a bone stock, 1993 NA Miata would "absolutely destroy" a stock Hellcat. There's a big gap between a stock 1993 Miata and the top of the AutoX list...
People regard a 4300 lbs BMW M5 as a world class sport sedan. Put a 200 lbs passenger in it, and all of a sudden 4500 lbs is a tank with intolerable CG?
The original comment was that a bone stock, 1993 NA Miata would "absolutely destroy" a stock Hellcat. There's a big gap between a stock 1993 Miata and the top of the AutoX list...
People regard a 4300 lbs BMW M5 as a world class sport sedan. Put a 200 lbs passenger in it, and all of a sudden 4500 lbs is a tank with intolerable CG?
Some people won't give credit where credit is due, the hellcat is awesome, if GM or ford comes out with a 700plus ho 4 door that can perform like the hellcat, I would think that is awesome as well.
03-27-2015, 10:34 PM
#65
Le Mans Master
03-27-2015, 11:25 PM
#66
Le Mans Master
I was incorrect with my hp it makes 600at the wheel on 40psI not 35, I will never take it that high, I've ran it at 35 at the track , but my everyday 93 octaine tune is set at 20psI or 400rwhp, nobody has touched me at that level, that power level is to much .
03-28-2015, 01:30 AM
#67
Race Director
Who said anything about being in the top 20?
The original comment was that a bone stock, 1993 NA Miata would "absolutely destroy" a stock Hellcat. There's a big gap between a stock 1993 Miata and the top of the AutoX list...
People regard a 4300 lbs BMW M5 as a world class sport sedan. Put a 200 lbs passenger in it, and all of a sudden 4500 lbs is a tank with intolerable CG?
The original comment was that a bone stock, 1993 NA Miata would "absolutely destroy" a stock Hellcat. There's a big gap between a stock 1993 Miata and the top of the AutoX list...
People regard a 4300 lbs BMW M5 as a world class sport sedan. Put a 200 lbs passenger in it, and all of a sudden 4500 lbs is a tank with intolerable CG?
03-28-2015, 01:39 AM
#68
Race Director
It'd be like Nytmere entering an Olympic gymnastic competition against a 90 lb top-ranking gymnast.
Really, the Hellcat was designed for the 1/4-mile drag strip. It is far to heavy to excel at any course that favors low mass. That's simple high school physics and another reason why the most ENGAGING cars are light weight convertibles, not heavily insulated tanks.
Really, the Hellcat was designed for the 1/4-mile drag strip. It is far to heavy to excel at any course that favors low mass. That's simple high school physics and another reason why the most ENGAGING cars are light weight convertibles, not heavily insulated tanks.
03-28-2015, 04:09 PM
#69
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But again, no one in his right mind would take an M5 to an autocross event with 2500 lb cars in it. Try driving Miata in an autocross event, then hop in a 4500 lb Hellcat. I guarantee that you'll set a record for most flattened cones and onlookers who are laughing so hard, their veins are almost bursting.
- Someone says a stock 1993 Jeep YJ, open diffs, would "absolutely destroy" a new Range Rover in technical terrain.
- I say, bullsh*t, the Jeep may be more fun off road, but the technical advantage of the Rover is far above an ancient Jeep. Its advanced traction control / terrain response, suspension, would enable it to find traction in terrain a stock YJ can't dream of.
- Then you come in and say "dig 3 hrs and you'll never see a Range Rover in the top 20 rock crawl competition".
- I say who said anything about being a top rock crawler? The question is beating a stock Jeep.
- You say again "if you showed up with a big huge luxury SUV to a rock crawl you'd get laughed at. Nothing over 5000 lbs or with a 120" wheelbase has ever won a rock crawl".
03-28-2015, 05:43 PM
#70
Race Director
But let's go back to your statement:
What I'm saying is that an autocross-centric Miata will most certainly not get its butt handed to it by a 4500 lb drag strip car. That'd be like my saying:
While the Miata would be more FUN on an autoX course, it just may get its *** handed to it by a Hellcat.
While the Hellcat would be more FUN on a drag strip, it just may get its *** handed to it by a Miata.
03-28-2015, 10:52 PM
#71
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The second statement should read something like this: while a Hellcat will be more FUN at top speed, it just may get its *** handed to it by a Boeing 747...
FUN != performance
03-30-2015, 04:37 PM
#72
Race Director
If Hellcats were better autocrossers, then we should be seeing Autocross place listings that show the Hellcat being Miatas and other (lightweight) cars. That won't happen because no Hellcat owner will dare to enter an autocross even that is dominated by lightweight sportscars.
03-30-2015, 06:39 PM
#73
Le Mans Master
If Hellcats were better autocrossers, then we should be seeing Autocross place listings that show the Hellcat being Miatas and other (lightweight) cars. That won't happen because no Hellcat owner will dare to enter an autocross even that is dominated by lightweight sportscars.
......yep that is what every person who buys a hellcat is thinking x cross 
Your posts are comical, always go way off topic, and always talk about an old chick car, nobody cares about an old Mazda Miata , it's was never a sports car, never a performer, just a car for little girls.
The hellcat is a hell of a car period.
03-30-2015, 07:58 PM
#74
Race Director
Now you are trying to make the hellcat an auto crosser ......yep that is what every person who buys a hellcat is thinking x cross
Your posts are comical, always go way off topic, and always talk about an old chick car, nobody cares about an old Mazda Miata , it's was never a sports car, never a performer, just a car for little girls.
The hellcat is a hell of a car period.
......yep that is what every person who buys a hellcat is thinking x cross Your posts are comical, always go way off topic, and always talk about an old chick car, nobody cares about an old Mazda Miata , it's was never a sports car, never a performer, just a car for little girls.
The hellcat is a hell of a car period.
03-30-2015, 11:27 PM
#77
03-31-2015, 01:20 AM
#78
Race Director
Question and answer with professional racer, Randy Pobst:
How many of you guys want to run against Randy, Charger against Charger or MX5 against MX5, you know, so you can try to prove that he doesn't know what he's talking about? After all, he drives only Miatas, right?
Right?
Why do you think the Mazda MX-5 has done so well in recent years at Mazda Raceway?.
.
Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca really is home for a Mazda Miata (MX-5), because it suits this car very well. This track has a lot of corners, and a lot of ups and downs. The Miata is a lightweight car – it’s a real live sports car. Not very powerful, but boy, does it go around the corner. Racing this car here is a perfect opportunity to take advantage of a true sports car on a sports car track.”.
.
Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca really is home for a Mazda Miata (MX-5), because it suits this car very well. This track has a lot of corners, and a lot of ups and downs. The Miata is a lightweight car – it’s a real live sports car. Not very powerful, but boy, does it go around the corner. Racing this car here is a perfect opportunity to take advantage of a true sports car on a sports car track.”.
Right?
03-31-2015, 03:18 AM
#79
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If Hellcats were better autocrossers, then we should be seeing Autocross place listings that show the Hellcat being Miatas and other (lightweight) cars. That won't happen because no Hellcat owner will dare to enter an autocross even that is dominated by lightweight sportscars.
M5, E63, RS7 owners are also not interested. Neither are 458, GT2, and a whole bunch of exotic owners. Should we conclude a STOCK Miata can beat them all?
Any if you've been around any autoX, you'd know nearly no one runs a stock Miata. Sure, a Miata on R-comps, coilovers, can probably beat a Hellcat, but that wasn't the discussion.
04-01-2015, 02:42 PM
#80
Race Director
The point is that you guys make fun of Miata owners who use their cars to race where light weight is a major advantage. You don't see many Miatas at the drag strip, just as you won't see Hellcats at the autoX events. I certainly won't blame the owner of a 4500-lb car if he stays away from this type of event and you shouldn't blast those who like small, light sports cars.