Garage find questions
05-28-2016, 01:35 AM
#1
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Garage find questions
My son and I went and looked at a 65' Mustang project in a garage today that was pretty rough. The original vinyl roof allowed the metal hard top to rust away under the skin. Looking up from inside is like Swiss cheese. The rest of the car is reasonable. 289 4v (apart) with spare engine, floor shift auto, 9-inch, with a/c. Basic interior, not the pony or anything special. One owner California car, but run hard and beat with twenty years of garage storage dirt on it.
What kind of job is it to weld & lead in a new roof on an early Mustang?
The garage also had a near original 27 model-T 2-door coupe, and an unfinished 23 T roadster rolling chassis & bucket, and three more model-T frames hanging from the rafters and two more steel buckets stacked near the back of the garage. Tons of model-T parts and wheels & blocks with transmissions on side shelves. The owner is a model-T fanatic, and says he is too old to keep up. He says he has title paper for three or four of the chassis's.
My son was all over and under the rough Mustang, while I was eyeing the model-T roadster for a vintage bucket project.
If you had a choice, Mustang or model-T bucket project?
What would you pay?
What kind of job is it to weld & lead in a new roof on an early Mustang?
The garage also had a near original 27 model-T 2-door coupe, and an unfinished 23 T roadster rolling chassis & bucket, and three more model-T frames hanging from the rafters and two more steel buckets stacked near the back of the garage. Tons of model-T parts and wheels & blocks with transmissions on side shelves. The owner is a model-T fanatic, and says he is too old to keep up. He says he has title paper for three or four of the chassis's.
My son was all over and under the rough Mustang, while I was eyeing the model-T roadster for a vintage bucket project.
If you had a choice, Mustang or model-T bucket project?
What would you pay?
05-28-2016, 05:58 AM
#2
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Run away. Unless your getting it for free. Just look at the production numbers. They made way to many basic ones to even think about that. Around my area you can pick up decent semi to full restored ones for around 15-20K. IMHO it's not worth it.
05-28-2016, 06:38 AM
#3
Safety Car
The Mustang is a big money pit. We all lose money on our cars this one could be of epic proportions.
A rusted out roof? Seriously? You shouldn't even have to think about this one.
Richard Newton
Have You Run Out of Money Yet?
A rusted out roof? Seriously? You shouldn't even have to think about this one.
Richard Newton
Have You Run Out of Money Yet?
05-28-2016, 06:44 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
I think it is worth 3-4K to someone who already owns one and needs 2 cars to make one good one.
05-28-2016, 06:56 AM
#5
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Unless you are an experienced body man with all of the welders and tools and more important, the knowledge, I would only consider it as a donor car for a better body. Although all of the parts are available to replace the roof on old Mustangs, it it not a simple task on a unibody car. You could buy it for $3-4K, but (guessing your son is less than 20) it gets old and challenging working on metal cars that need a lot of welding. He may not retain the interest in the car long enough to finish it.
Then again, if you have nothing else you enjoy to do, go for it. Pride in your work is the best reward you will get.
Then again, if you have nothing else you enjoy to do, go for it. Pride in your work is the best reward you will get.
05-28-2016, 07:03 AM
#6
Team Owner
I had several first generation Mustangs...and have inspected probably 30 for other people. The roof repair has some benefits in that it is easily accessible but a lot of work. I'd prob have to see pictures to really assess it. Some just cut the roof off and weld a new one on... Others just convert the coupe to a convertible - yes, it CAN be done, and I've seen some damn nice jobs of it.
The fastbacks have a lot of lead work but the coupes perhaps none or at least very little. Not many want to deal with the hazards working with the stuff.
The rust you see is a distraction. The rust you don't see will eat you alive. First thing I do examining these cars is open the little square fresh air door in the passenger footwell and reach A-L-L the way up inside and feel around. If you come out with rusty fingers or bits of corroded metal -- head for the hills. Correcting this requires complete cowl removal and superb welding skills. Rain, pine straw and other crap was allowed to collect under the cowl grilles and rust out the 'top hat' area -- bad, bad news.
Next look at the trunk 'drop-offs' on either side....lift the left hand side hardboard and the spare tire on the right hand side. Reach down and feel for any rivets, bondo and rust W-A-Y down in the rear quarters. Remove the trunk mat and examine the trunk floor. Guess what ? That floor is the TOP of the gas tank....rusting or punctures there are dangerous and a PITA to fix. Many cars have had rust around the trunk lip that has been fixed or gooped over. Examine that carefully, it can tell much about the quality of work that has been done on the car.
Look carefully at the front shock towers...cars that have been driven hard can have the shock tower bracing actually start to 'lean in' towards the engine. Which is one reason Shelby added the export brace and Monte Carlo bars. Examine the rocker area under each door carefully - another favorite rust out area and many times with 1/2" of Bondo crammed in there.
You'll want to check the floorboards carefully for rust and the frames on these cars (unlike Corvettes) tend to rot at the front rails...
I take a strong magnet and a T-shirt and most owners will let you put the magnet on a soft cloth in various areas to check for metal....some use a gauge; I don't.
Finally, don't be put off by some poor fitting pieces such as the headlight buckets at the fender/hood area and the rear edges of the trunk. They were **** straight from the factory. Check the VIN number on the DS inside fender apron....a true V-8 should have a "C", "A", or "K" (that's a Hi-Po - you should be so lucky!) anything else and it could be a 6-cyl conversion -- remove a hubcap if none of these letters appear. If there are 4 lug nuts; it was a 6-cyl sometime in its past... I convert the '65 dash to a '66 - I just can't stand that Falcon gauge cluster...
First gen Mustangs are fun, sexy little cars but finding a nice one anymore takes some patience... If the car is being presented as a factory "GT" then come back and check in here - there are several "tell tales" to determine the validity of that claim. The picture is the one I sold in 2007; like a complete dumb azz...
I don't know do-doo about Model T's. Contact GTOguy (Jeff) on here about those era cars...
The fastbacks have a lot of lead work but the coupes perhaps none or at least very little. Not many want to deal with the hazards working with the stuff.
The rust you see is a distraction. The rust you don't see will eat you alive. First thing I do examining these cars is open the little square fresh air door in the passenger footwell and reach A-L-L the way up inside and feel around. If you come out with rusty fingers or bits of corroded metal -- head for the hills. Correcting this requires complete cowl removal and superb welding skills. Rain, pine straw and other crap was allowed to collect under the cowl grilles and rust out the 'top hat' area -- bad, bad news.
Next look at the trunk 'drop-offs' on either side....lift the left hand side hardboard and the spare tire on the right hand side. Reach down and feel for any rivets, bondo and rust W-A-Y down in the rear quarters. Remove the trunk mat and examine the trunk floor. Guess what ? That floor is the TOP of the gas tank....rusting or punctures there are dangerous and a PITA to fix. Many cars have had rust around the trunk lip that has been fixed or gooped over. Examine that carefully, it can tell much about the quality of work that has been done on the car.
Look carefully at the front shock towers...cars that have been driven hard can have the shock tower bracing actually start to 'lean in' towards the engine. Which is one reason Shelby added the export brace and Monte Carlo bars. Examine the rocker area under each door carefully - another favorite rust out area and many times with 1/2" of Bondo crammed in there.
You'll want to check the floorboards carefully for rust and the frames on these cars (unlike Corvettes) tend to rot at the front rails...
I take a strong magnet and a T-shirt and most owners will let you put the magnet on a soft cloth in various areas to check for metal....some use a gauge; I don't.
Finally, don't be put off by some poor fitting pieces such as the headlight buckets at the fender/hood area and the rear edges of the trunk. They were **** straight from the factory. Check the VIN number on the DS inside fender apron....a true V-8 should have a "C", "A", or "K" (that's a Hi-Po - you should be so lucky!) anything else and it could be a 6-cyl conversion -- remove a hubcap if none of these letters appear. If there are 4 lug nuts; it was a 6-cyl sometime in its past... I convert the '65 dash to a '66 - I just can't stand that Falcon gauge cluster...
First gen Mustangs are fun, sexy little cars but finding a nice one anymore takes some patience... If the car is being presented as a factory "GT" then come back and check in here - there are several "tell tales" to determine the validity of that claim. The picture is the one I sold in 2007; like a complete dumb azz...
I don't know do-doo about Model T's. Contact GTOguy (Jeff) on here about those era cars...
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 05-28-2016 at 07:40 AM.
05-28-2016, 08:55 AM
#7
Race Director
Can't speak much about Mustangs, but I sold a roof skin to a customer for a 68 Z/28 they're restoring.
The Z/28 also started life with a vinyl top, and was badly rusted in the areas of the front and rear glass and the drip gutters, though the roof itself was solid. I saw some of what was needed to replace the roof skin. It's a large job, but not impossible for an experienced body man. The most critical part of the job, is getting the roof fitted correctly for the windshield and rear window, and their moldings.
As I said, this was a 68 Z/28, a relatively rare and valuable car to start with, and this particular car had an interesting assortment of options. It was well worth the time and effort to replace the roof skin on this car. If the Mustang was a GT with the 271 HP Hi-Performance 289 and a 4 speed, it would be a no brainer, but with a basic automatic coupe it's tough to say.
As far as T buckets, they're not very comfortable or practical, but they are fun. I love Model T's, and have restored a number of them. They're very simple and easy to work on, just about any idiot can restore one. I restored a 1914 T Touring when I was 16, and got an AACA Nation Second with it at Hershey.Driving one is a different story. With levers on the steering column to control throttle and spark, and three pedals for forward, reverse and brake, they're a little tricky to learn to drive, but not impossible.
The Z/28 also started life with a vinyl top, and was badly rusted in the areas of the front and rear glass and the drip gutters, though the roof itself was solid. I saw some of what was needed to replace the roof skin. It's a large job, but not impossible for an experienced body man. The most critical part of the job, is getting the roof fitted correctly for the windshield and rear window, and their moldings.
As I said, this was a 68 Z/28, a relatively rare and valuable car to start with, and this particular car had an interesting assortment of options. It was well worth the time and effort to replace the roof skin on this car. If the Mustang was a GT with the 271 HP Hi-Performance 289 and a 4 speed, it would be a no brainer, but with a basic automatic coupe it's tough to say.
As far as T buckets, they're not very comfortable or practical, but they are fun. I love Model T's, and have restored a number of them. They're very simple and easy to work on, just about any idiot can restore one. I restored a 1914 T Touring when I was 16, and got an AACA Nation Second with it at Hershey.Driving one is a different story. With levers on the steering column to control throttle and spark, and three pedals for forward, reverse and brake, they're a little tricky to learn to drive, but not impossible.
05-28-2016, 09:24 PM
#12
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You will be upside down on that car the minute you take possession.<br/>
05-28-2016, 11:19 PM
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