rgregory

Toyota hasn't made anything that wasn't boring as crap since the 90's.

thegame

This is true

vvv90

Jesus, talk about living in the past dude.

thegame

Cool cars are timeless

vvv90

I agree, and Supras are cool, but it's a wide left turn in the discussion. This is the original quote:

Present tense, not past.

thegame

Fair point

\Boost Monkey/

Disagree on Lexus, and on the opposite end, honda aesthetics are by far the most boring, inside and out.

Toyota sucks (as stated since the 90's, then just Supra) i will agree, but Lexus is coming around hard on exterior/interior design and taking some risks. The interiors of the new Lexus cars is beautiful, best in luxury class by far IMHO. They now produce the best looking luxury SUV out there among the biggest mainstream luxury players (not Porsche, Jag etc) in the new RX. I wanted to buy one for my wife.

Performance and powertrains is another story, but they are actually trying now to catch up with the Germans. But they took a big step with the LFA and now the 500.

MVR 155

Toyota has to win the "soulless" award from looks to driving dynamics. Honda is a close second but definitely has better looking cars, new Accord is very sharp looking. I also think that Lexus has some nice driving cars..... The ISF (and IS350 F sport) are great driving cars, they have also received great reviews from the usual publications. The GSF is over priced in the segment but did receive good reviews from a driving standpoint. I think if the IS350 got a little boost in power (especially in the torque department) it would be a better competitor. An AWD GSF would also be a great seller!!

FAUEE

Toyota has the 86, one of the very few driver's cars left. Calling it soulless is just absurd. The rest of its cars are not intended to be sporty, but Toyota has given us some real fun to drive cars in the past. Celica, the XRS line, MR2, etc.

Buick has nothing worth driving. The GS is slow and heavy and drives like the pig it is.
Caddy makes cars that wish they were BMWs. They desperately need a new direction and new leadership. Someone who can realize what Caddy is about and not try to force them into being BMWs for those who can't afford BMWs but they have more hp so they can brag.
Honda currently makes nothing sporty. This changes soon in a big way, but honestly, Hondas has very sporty handling in most all their small cars.
VW has gotten soulless lately. The GTI is by far their best car, the Golf R takes that and dials down the fun in the name of being sort of performance, but also mainly a touring car.
Lincoln has its own identity now as a purveyor of gorgeous and luxurious vehicles without trying to be BMW. Now they're throwing wanton hp into them too, because why not.

But right now, one of the worst offenders in the industry are BMW's M and MB's AMG. They're both having heir names slapped onto sport appearance packages to ***** that name out. What used to be a midlevel MB is now an entry level AMG, with no real changes but more MSRP, a new name, and all those glorious AMG badges. BMW is doing the same thing with M, plastering it on anything that's above the base level as an "M Sport" model. Sad really for what those cars used to be.

Then there's Volvo, hell bent on making gorgeous appliances to make your forget you're driving. You get a choice of 4 cylinder engines, soon the glorious 5 cylinder will be gone. You get Chinese engineering and quality, backed up with Volvo's legacy of quality (sarcasm). They are doing everything possible to kill any soul they had before.

White Out

Toyota and its subsidiaries have made some interesting cars: 86/FRS, MR2, Land Cruiser, 4Runner TRD Pro, Tacoma TRD Pro, LX, RCF and LFA.

\Boost Monkey/

Yeah I'm liking where Lexus' head is at, but they still have a ways to go performance wise. ISF is a pig and they are behind the times with the V8 (whether we think/like that FI is the way forward or not). It's still numb also but getting better.

The new 500 is a work of art, IMHO.

And agree with the dude above about BMW diluting the M brand, along with their whole rediculously complicated lineup philosophy. AMG isn't as bad as M yet. But Lexus is copying M hard with all the F stuff. F sport packages and F line.

FAUEE

You clearly haven't seen the C400 I mean C450 I mean C43 AMG (all the same car). It's also now numerically lower than the CLA45 AGM which has a turbo 4 cylinder and less power.

I will hear no badmouthing of the Yamaha tuned 5.0 that Lexus uses. It's a work of art, powerful, reliable, sounds fantastic, and is a true gem in a world of lackluster generic engines nowdays. Let the losers drive generic 3.5L turbo V6s. People who want something unique can and will buy an engine as sweet as that. If I was flush with cash, I'd have an ISF, RCF, and GSF. Great looking, and great sounding, while being fast, fun, reliable, and not terrible to drive.

\Boost Monkey/

Yeah but AMG is still not as bad as the M brand, i don't care what you say. The dilution is nowhere near as bad now that you have M-sport packages on every car they make.

Yeah i didn't say it was a bad V8, just that they are behind with introducing it. I am one that doesn't like to see the FI direction everybody is taking, I love the N/A V8's and the e92/3's S65 was one of my favorite M engines ever. But, they need to understand the world IS going FI, and they will have to also, so better start now. Although i like them, ISF and RCF are still pigs.

I don't care much for the GSF.

rgregory

Yes they recently dropped the Scion line and are now re-badgeing the Subara as a Toyota instead of Scion had forgot about that. That car would not be what it is without Subaru.

I race a 84 Toyota Celica.... yes toyota made some fun cars in the past but not today, and the one car you are talking about from today they simply sell a Subaru designed/built car as a Toyota.

FAUEE

I think for limited production vehicles, there's no need to worry about going FI. And it's not like the Lexus F cars get terrible mileage. It's not their strong point, but if you want a fuel efficient one they sell tons of hybrids and low powered versions too.

The reason the Germans are going FI is so they can remove the specialness from their special cars. It's much easier to just dial up the boost for your M car than to actually come up with a new and better engine. And the sheep that buy them, will still buy them.

themonk

Really? There is not one car that Honda or Acura ever made that I would take over the LFA.

SLO VETTE

that's one seriously ugly car. even more ugly than your plain white stingray.

White Out

Nah, C7 beat's it in the ugly department. Still would be a fun car to drive and looking at the Viper's tail lights just like the C7.

vvv90

So what you're saying is that the LFA would be a fun car to drive while looking at Viper and C7 tail lights? Why would that be fun to be losing?

White Out

Saying its level of attractiveness is similar to the C7 and like the C7 is slower than the Viper (which also has a V10.)