$35 Electric Steering with Fail-Safe: No eBay module needed. Pics & Videos
10-31-2016, 03:04 PM
#21
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Ford EPS operate as well with no CAN Bus
It's not a "fail-safe" per say it's just defaulting to a specific boost curve (usually 100 kph). This is a safe amount of assist regardless of speed. Parking efforts can be high though, especially at end of travel or while not rolling.
Newer GM systems only need a 12 volt power on the first pin of the 10 way connector to turn on the ECU and then they default to 100 jpg mode.
It's not a "fail-safe" per say it's just defaulting to a specific boost curve (usually 100 kph). This is a safe amount of assist regardless of speed. Parking efforts can be high though, especially at end of travel or while not rolling.
Newer GM systems only need a 12 volt power on the first pin of the 10 way connector to turn on the ECU and then they default to 100 jpg mode.
10-31-2016, 03:08 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by waid1017
The EPS from Saturn Vue does not have Fail-Safe. The guy on eBay figured out how to communicate with it. However, people have complained that the Saturn Vue EPS with eBay box does not have steering return ability no matter how much caster is added. The eBay module may be hold the electric motor preventing the steering to self center coming out of a turn or make constant corrections. Also if the eBay module ever fails, you will lose electric assist. A friend of mine has the Saturn Vue EPS in 1965 Ranchero and I seen this issue first hand.
It seems that all other EPS, except Saturn & Chevy, has Fail-Safe with one setting for electric power assist fixed at a happy level.
Waid
It seems that all other EPS, except Saturn & Chevy, has Fail-Safe with one setting for electric power assist fixed at a happy level.
Waid
They have a feature called "Active Return" which won't work unless the car has the steering angle from the column mounted sensor. No sensor means the suspension does all the work, nearly impossible with the level of friction in those gears.
Dual pinion EPS have higher friction than belt drive systems.
11-02-2016, 11:01 AM
#23
That's a Bosch Dual Pinion System in the VUE (if we are talking about the rack EPS based Hybrids). I used to work on those before I was at Ford.
They have a feature called "Active Return" which won't work unless the car has the steering angle from the column mounted sensor. No sensor means the suspension does all the work, nearly impossible with the level of friction in those gears.
Dual pinion EPS have higher friction than belt drive systems.
They have a feature called "Active Return" which won't work unless the car has the steering angle from the column mounted sensor. No sensor means the suspension does all the work, nearly impossible with the level of friction in those gears.
Dual pinion EPS have higher friction than belt drive systems.
The Saturn Vue EPS I am talking about is the non-Hybrid and the column mounted EPS.
In my my opinion, the dual pinion and belt drive system sucks and most manufactures have done this route. With this type of system, components are not serviceable and the entire EPS has to be replaced if anything goes wrong. One of the guys I know had to replace this rack mounted EPS on his Ford Fusion for $2000. These types of system are about same price for all manufacturers.
Toyota and few manufacturer have stuck with column mounted EPS and you can service the rack, the ECU, the motor all separately and parts are available from the dealer!
Waid
Last edited by waid1017; 11-02-2016 at 11:02 AM.
11-02-2016, 12:17 PM
#24
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Most column systems are moving toward integrated motor + ECU's due to the losses on the phases (and the switch to more phases). Look at a similar part cost for a column ($1500-$2000)
The systems now are almost exclusively AC Motors where the early columns were DC. The lowest of low cost countries may keep DC, but only for micro cars.
11-02-2016, 06:27 PM
#25
Not for long.
Most column systems are moving toward integrated motor + ECU's due to the losses on the phases (and the switch to more phases). Look at a similar part cost for a column ($1500-$2000)
The systems now are almost exclusively AC Motors where the early columns were DC. The lowest of low cost countries may keep DC, but only for micro cars.
Most column systems are moving toward integrated motor + ECU's due to the losses on the phases (and the switch to more phases). Look at a similar part cost for a column ($1500-$2000)
The systems now are almost exclusively AC Motors where the early columns were DC. The lowest of low cost countries may keep DC, but only for micro cars.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-15-SCIO...RV8Juv&vxp=mtr
For now, from what I can tell, Toyota is still using Column EPS on almost all of their vehicle. Wonder why they did not switch to rack mounted EPS?
On my last business trip, I had 2016 Camry with column EPS and its perfectly acceptable. Most drivers don't even know or cares as to what kind of steering they have!
Waid
Last edited by waid1017; 11-02-2016 at 06:29 PM.
11-02-2016, 06:47 PM
#26
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Yea, that's a 3-phase AC Motor. In less than 5-years all those will be 6-Phase or 12-phase for robustness improvements (technology changes fast) and with those systems it's impossible to run the individual wires.
Toyota uses Column on everything but Lexus which is a combo of Concentric (motor shaft surrounds rack) and Belt/Rack Drive, Honda prefers Single Pinion (motor is on the rack but right where the input shaft is) but also does Column, Ford is a mix of Belt/Rack and Column, GM uses everything Dual Pinion, Belt, Column, Chrysler is the same as GM. The higher end makes like BMW and Mercedes use Belt drive on anything larger than a compact car, and Column on smaller things. VW loves Dual Pinion.
The systems today are 5-10 fold more complex than those of 5 years ago. The same jump will happen again. The tech is changing. It's getting harder for people to retrofit cars with these items. Probably the easiest to work with are the early column systems followed by the most basic racks.
Toyota uses Column on everything but Lexus which is a combo of Concentric (motor shaft surrounds rack) and Belt/Rack Drive, Honda prefers Single Pinion (motor is on the rack but right where the input shaft is) but also does Column, Ford is a mix of Belt/Rack and Column, GM uses everything Dual Pinion, Belt, Column, Chrysler is the same as GM. The higher end makes like BMW and Mercedes use Belt drive on anything larger than a compact car, and Column on smaller things. VW loves Dual Pinion.
The systems today are 5-10 fold more complex than those of 5 years ago. The same jump will happen again. The tech is changing. It's getting harder for people to retrofit cars with these items. Probably the easiest to work with are the early column systems followed by the most basic racks.
11-03-2016, 11:24 AM
#27
Yea, that's a 3-phase AC Motor. In less than 5-years all those will be 6-Phase or 12-phase for robustness improvements (technology changes fast) and with those systems it's impossible to run the individual wires.
Toyota uses Column on everything but Lexus which is a combo of Concentric (motor shaft surrounds rack) and Belt/Rack Drive, Honda prefers Single Pinion (motor is on the rack but right where the input shaft is) but also does Column, Ford is a mix of Belt/Rack and Column, GM uses everything Dual Pinion, Belt, Column, Chrysler is the same as GM. The higher end makes like BMW and Mercedes use Belt drive on anything larger than a compact car, and Column on smaller things. VW loves Dual Pinion.
The systems today are 5-10 fold more complex than those of 5 years ago. The same jump will happen again. The tech is changing. It's getting harder for people to retrofit cars with these items. Probably the easiest to work with are the early column systems followed by the most basic racks.
Toyota uses Column on everything but Lexus which is a combo of Concentric (motor shaft surrounds rack) and Belt/Rack Drive, Honda prefers Single Pinion (motor is on the rack but right where the input shaft is) but also does Column, Ford is a mix of Belt/Rack and Column, GM uses everything Dual Pinion, Belt, Column, Chrysler is the same as GM. The higher end makes like BMW and Mercedes use Belt drive on anything larger than a compact car, and Column on smaller things. VW loves Dual Pinion.
The systems today are 5-10 fold more complex than those of 5 years ago. The same jump will happen again. The tech is changing. It's getting harder for people to retrofit cars with these items. Probably the easiest to work with are the early column systems followed by the most basic racks.
Looks like I actually have the newer EPS with AC Motor and it does work in Fail-Safe. The 2015 Kia Soul has a 3-wire AC Motor. When I tested all of them, the Kia Soul was the most powerful since it was AC and not DC.
Waid
11-06-2016, 11:25 AM
#28
Awesome work! I looked into doing an electric power steering pump swap but found it was tough to get the right pump to work without breaking the bank.
I then, briefly, looked into a electric assisted column setup but there just isn't enough room under a C3 corvette's dash.
An electric assisted rack and pinion would potentially work though! Assuming it had enough assist with just a basic power source.
I then, briefly, looked into a electric assisted column setup but there just isn't enough room under a C3 corvette's dash.
An electric assisted rack and pinion would potentially work though! Assuming it had enough assist with just a basic power source.
11-20-2016, 01:43 PM
#29
Race Director
Factory Five Racing offered electric power assist steering as a upgrade in all their cars from their 33 hotrod to their GTM supercar, which is an awesome mid engine Corvette design. I'm probably going to do the upgrade, and looking for anyone who has completed the upgrade and is driving a C3 down the road with it installed. I plan on calling Factory Five Racing to talk to one of their engineers to see if their package is something that might work with our Corvettes. Their upgrade included everything needed to do the upgrade and it all came in a box. I'll post a reply with what I find out.
07-25-2018, 05:46 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
Waid, I'd like to add a module that sends canbus to the controller to vary the feel. Do you know of anyone who has a list of canbus messages these EPS are looking for? It's very easy to make up an inxpensive module that ties into the MPH info in the car and sends canbus. I have a mobus unit from Hyundai, but that's optional.
11-03-2018, 10:07 PM
#31
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i kow this is an old thread but hopefully someone will reply. ive got a chevy vue steering gear in my column from ez steer and im trying to use an 89650-47102 from a prrus.im bench testing before the install and its NO JOY. i know which pairs are the torque sensors as they measure @6.5 ohms but i dont know which is left or right. ive scoured the internet trying to deduce whats the correct sequence to connect them to 5-8 on the ecu to no avail. in desperation i decided to "wing it" and after numerous combinations ive only succeeded in destroying my ecu as pin six and all the rest are quite dead ( 0VDC) i really want this setup but theres no sense in sourcing another ecu without the correct hook up data. anyone want to bite?
