2017 LT4 ZL1 runs 7:29.60 at the Nurburgring
10-25-2016, 01:07 PM
#101
Team Owner
[QUOTE=Lavender;1593326462]Nope. Standart tires are the Goodyear F1s and there is no tire options other than that.[/QUOTE]
Not just your run of the mill Goodyear F1 but has a rubber compound developed specifically for the ZL1.
Just like the Michelin Super Sport tires for the C7 Z51 has a rubber compound different than the Michelin Super Sports used on the base Stingray.
Not just your run of the mill Goodyear F1 but has a rubber compound developed specifically for the ZL1.
Just like the Michelin Super Sport tires for the C7 Z51 has a rubber compound different than the Michelin Super Sports used on the base Stingray.
Last edited by JoesC5; 10-25-2016 at 01:09 PM.
10-25-2016, 01:24 PM
#102
Le Mans Master
10-25-2016, 08:19 PM
#103
Team Owner
That's why you hear all about the complaints of the Z51 tires picking up rocks and peppering the car's sides.
And yes, they are also different ID's.
From Michelin press release..."Unlike the MICHELIN tire fitted to the standard 2014 Corvette Stingray, the Z51 tire features a custom dual-tread compound and pattern that achieves near-racing-slick grip and handling levels, while providing longer tread life and wet handling capabilities."
http://www.michelin.com/eng/media-ro...ay-Convertible
Last edited by JoesC5; 10-25-2016 at 08:30 PM.
10-25-2016, 11:01 PM
#104
Race Director
Member Since: Dec 2006
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I've disengaged from this thread mostly due to the nature of several of the posts here, but this:
is a fair question. It was R&D validation. Remember that part of the way through the ZR1's production (and near the end of the Z06's production) GM made some fairly interesting changes. When they ran the car the firs time, they didn't have PTM in it. So that was new for the second run. The R-compound tires from the factory were new, as well as some slightly enhanced aero. On the Z06, those things were included along with the carbon ceramics and the MSRC suspension (aka: Z07).
So yes, it was engineering validation of those new additions to both cars.
is a fair question. It was R&D validation. Remember that part of the way through the ZR1's production (and near the end of the Z06's production) GM made some fairly interesting changes. When they ran the car the firs time, they didn't have PTM in it. So that was new for the second run. The R-compound tires from the factory were new, as well as some slightly enhanced aero. On the Z06, those things were included along with the carbon ceramics and the MSRC suspension (aka: Z07).
So yes, it was engineering validation of those new additions to both cars.
I agree that the 181 MPH is very impressive.
I looked everywhere but have not been able to find the full specs on the 2017 ZL1(transmission ratios, differential gearing, tire size), so I can see what the final drive ratio was at 181 MPH.
The ZR1 has a total gearing of 2.80:1 at 183 MPH @ 6450 RPM, before shifting into 6th gear. It's at it's max horsepower at 6450 RPM. It is running a .82:1 5th gear from 150 MPH to 183 MPH.
The C6 Z06 has a 3.42:1 total gear at 161 MPH @ 7,000(800 RPM over it's max horsepower), but when it shifts into 5th gear at 161, it runs into a stone wall because it's total gearing drops to 2.53:1(compared to the ZR1's 2.80:1) and the RPM is only at 5100(way below it's maximum horsepower RPM).
If the C6 Z06 had had the ZR1's 5th gear ratio, it's top speed would have been much higher than 161 MPH it ran at the Ring.
At Talladega I have power shifted my C6 Z06 at 158 MPH into 5th gear and I can attest to how it hits a stone wall because of the 5th gear ratio of .74:1 vs the ZR1's .82:1.
EDIT: I found the tire size, the transmission and rear axle ratios for the 2017 ZL1. At the speed of 181 MPH in the video at the Ring, the car is turning 6375 RPM in 7th gear for a total gearing of 2.85:1. That means it runs from 145 MPH to 181 MPH with a 2.85:1 total gearing compared to the C6 Z06's 2.53:1 and the ZR1's 2.80:1.
I looked everywhere but have not been able to find the full specs on the 2017 ZL1(transmission ratios, differential gearing, tire size), so I can see what the final drive ratio was at 181 MPH.
The ZR1 has a total gearing of 2.80:1 at 183 MPH @ 6450 RPM, before shifting into 6th gear. It's at it's max horsepower at 6450 RPM. It is running a .82:1 5th gear from 150 MPH to 183 MPH.
The C6 Z06 has a 3.42:1 total gear at 161 MPH @ 7,000(800 RPM over it's max horsepower), but when it shifts into 5th gear at 161, it runs into a stone wall because it's total gearing drops to 2.53:1(compared to the ZR1's 2.80:1) and the RPM is only at 5100(way below it's maximum horsepower RPM).
If the C6 Z06 had had the ZR1's 5th gear ratio, it's top speed would have been much higher than 161 MPH it ran at the Ring.
At Talladega I have power shifted my C6 Z06 at 158 MPH into 5th gear and I can attest to how it hits a stone wall because of the 5th gear ratio of .74:1 vs the ZR1's .82:1.
EDIT: I found the tire size, the transmission and rear axle ratios for the 2017 ZL1. At the speed of 181 MPH in the video at the Ring, the car is turning 6375 RPM in 7th gear for a total gearing of 2.85:1. That means it runs from 145 MPH to 181 MPH with a 2.85:1 total gearing compared to the C6 Z06's 2.53:1 and the ZR1's 2.80:1.
10-26-2016, 09:42 AM
#106
Melting Slicks
I know the tires were a big change and guess it was justified to boost sales.
Dumb question, but are the ptm calibrations different between a non z07 z06/z07 z06 and non pde zr1/pde zr1? Also there were pics of a silver GS at the ring earlier in the year, did it record a lap time?
I agree, the c6z was not optimally geared and therefore it's speed was handicapped comparatively.
Dumb question, but are the ptm calibrations different between a non z07 z06/z07 z06 and non pde zr1/pde zr1? Also there were pics of a silver GS at the ring earlier in the year, did it record a lap time?
I agree, the c6z was not optimally geared and therefore it's speed was handicapped comparatively.
10-26-2016, 11:07 AM
#107
Melting Slicks
Just like the Michelin Super Sport tires for the C7 Z51 has a rubber compound different than the Michelin Super Sports used on the base Stingray.[/QUOTE]
I would assume the ZL1 would handle and brake better with Michelin cups, chevy is saving that combo for the Z/28 with super light weight wheels I hope. A naturally aspirated Camaro has to be able to beat/compete with the GT350R. The ZL1 is not a direct competitor to the GT350R.
10-26-2016, 11:35 AM
#108
Not just your run of the mill Goodyear F1 but has a rubber compound developed specifically for the ZL1.
Just like the Michelin Super Sport tires for the C7 Z51 has a rubber compound different than the Michelin Super Sports used on the base Stingray.
I would assume the ZL1 would handle and brake better with Michelin cups, chevy is saving that combo for the Z/28 with super light weight wheels I hope. A naturally aspirated Camaro has to be able to beat/compete with the GT350R. The ZL1 is not a direct competitor to the GT350R.
Just like the Michelin Super Sport tires for the C7 Z51 has a rubber compound different than the Michelin Super Sports used on the base Stingray.
I would assume the ZL1 would handle and brake better with Michelin cups, chevy is saving that combo for the Z/28 with super light weight wheels I hope. A naturally aspirated Camaro has to be able to beat/compete with the GT350R. The ZL1 is not a direct competitor to the GT350R.
Last edited by Lavender; 10-26-2016 at 11:38 AM.
10-26-2016, 03:12 PM
#109
Team Owner
I don't know what happened with your post but the quotes are all screwed up.
Why did GM go with the special Goodyear F1's if the Michelin Cups are better? GM has a working relationship with Michelin so they could have fitted the ZL1 with Cups, but they had Goodyear design a "custom" tire specifically for the ZL1. They wouldn't have done that if the Cup was a superior tire.
Last edited by JoesC5; 10-26-2016 at 03:18 PM.
10-26-2016, 03:25 PM
#110
Team Owner
So?
Did you not read where I posted that Goodyear specifically designed the F1 they used for the ZL1 with a "custom" compound and construction, etc.
The F1 they used is not the same as the F1 used on the C4 or the C5 or the C6, etc.
It was designed specifically for the ZL1 so it should be very well matched to the car's suspension, etc.
At this point there is absolutely no evidence that the F1 GM selected for the ZL1 is in any way inferior to , say, the Michelin Cups.
Did you not read where I posted that Goodyear specifically designed the F1 they used for the ZL1 with a "custom" compound and construction, etc.
The F1 they used is not the same as the F1 used on the C4 or the C5 or the C6, etc.
It was designed specifically for the ZL1 so it should be very well matched to the car's suspension, etc.
At this point there is absolutely no evidence that the F1 GM selected for the ZL1 is in any way inferior to , say, the Michelin Cups.
Last edited by JoesC5; 10-26-2016 at 03:49 PM.
10-27-2016, 01:34 PM
#111
Melting Slicks
So?
Did you not read where I posted that Goodyear specifically designed the F1 they used for the ZL1 with a "custom" compound and construction, etc.
The F1 they used is not the same as the F1 used on the C4 or the C5 or the C6, etc.
It was designed specifically for the ZL1 so it should be very well matched to the car's suspension, etc.
At this point there is absolutely no evidence that the F1 GM selected for the ZL1 is in any way inferior to , say, the Michelin Cups.
Did you not read where I posted that Goodyear specifically designed the F1 they used for the ZL1 with a "custom" compound and construction, etc.
The F1 they used is not the same as the F1 used on the C4 or the C5 or the C6, etc.
It was designed specifically for the ZL1 so it should be very well matched to the car's suspension, etc.
At this point there is absolutely no evidence that the F1 GM selected for the ZL1 is in any way inferior to , say, the Michelin Cups.
10-27-2016, 03:54 PM
#112
Team Owner
If not, then all you have is an assumption that is not based on facts.
I'm guessing that GM also asked Michelin to also develop a tire for the ZL1 as well as Goodyear(and most likely other tire manufacturers) but they chose Goodyear's tire. Must be a good reason they did. When GM had the C6 Z06 under development, they asked several tire manufacturers to develop tires for it. One was Bridgestone, with their RE050A run flat that Bridgestone developed specifically for the C6 Z06, as they were after the OE business. Goodyear got the nod from GM for their F1 to be used on the C6 Z06, but now we have the Bridgestone tires available for the C6 Z06(and GS) owners since day one. Since Bridgestone had spent the money to develop the Z06 run flats, they didn't shelve them after they didn't get the contract from GM as the OE suppler, but, instead, offered them aftermarket.
My point is that GM most likely had several tires to choose from for the ZL1 and they selected the one that worked best on the ZL1.
You don't even know if GM is going to release a Z28. You are just assuming they are.
Last edited by JoesC5; 10-27-2016 at 04:14 PM.
10-27-2016, 04:25 PM
#113
Melting Slicks
Did you read my last sentence? Do you have any proof that the Cup tire is a better track tire than the F1 GM is using on the ZL? Do you have any videos and times of the ZL1 fitted with Michelin Cups so we can compare to the ZL1 with F1's?
If not, then all you have is an assumption that is not based on facts.
You don't even know if GM is going to release a Z28. You are just assuming they are.
If not, then all you have is an assumption that is not based on facts.
You don't even know if GM is going to release a Z28. You are just assuming they are.
10-27-2016, 04:54 PM
#114
Team Owner
Maybe Goodyear is fighting back and is serious about getting back in the game.
Michelin stole their business, so who's to say Goodyear isn't trying to get it back?
10-27-2016, 04:58 PM
#115
Is it right to say that no cars from the 7th Gen vette has produced a ring time?
10-27-2016, 05:32 PM
#116
Melting Slicks
For years Goodyear was the tire that was the hot ticket on the Corvette. Then Michelin stole their thunder with the Cups, and even the Super Sports, like what is used on the Z51 and non Z07 Z06's.
Maybe Goodyear is fighting back and is serious about getting back in the game.
Michelin stole their business, so who's to say Goodyear isn't trying to get it back?
Maybe Goodyear is fighting back and is serious about getting back in the game.
Michelin stole their business, so who's to say Goodyear isn't trying to get it back?
In matter of fact, look at the top 100 fastest ring cars, look and see that the mostly used tire was Michelin.
Good luck goodyear, stay with nascar.
10-27-2016, 06:48 PM
#117
Team Owner
Very familiar with the Goodyear F1 super car tires 1st and 2nd gen (08 Z06), friends 2013 GT500 662 horse factory car with the 2nd gen supercar F1's ,both not good with that rubber. Now have a 2015 base with the ZF1 pkg, Z51 tires/wheels MPSS, what a difference compared to my Z06 . Look what The GT350 R runs, the Z07 pkg Z06, the great times on the NURBURGRING ZR1, ZO6/Z07, yes indeed Michelin cups.
In matter of fact, look at the top 100 fastest ring cars, look and see that the mostly used tire was Michelin.
Good luck goodyear, stay with nascar.
In matter of fact, look at the top 100 fastest ring cars, look and see that the mostly used tire was Michelin.
Good luck goodyear, stay with nascar.
The fact is, you can't as the F1's in question were not available in December, 2011 when the 2012 Z06/Z07 and the ZR1 were run at the ring. How in the hell can you compare a tire that is not even released yet, that was developed specifically for the ZL1, to any other tire?
I can't believe that you are basing your opinion of a tire on one that was released back in 2005 for the C6 Z06 to a tire released in 2016 for the ZL1.
Last edited by JoesC5; 10-27-2016 at 07:39 PM.
10-27-2016, 10:37 PM
#118
Burning Brakes
Then show me a time that the 2012 Z06/Z07 and the ZR1 ran on the same day by Mero at the Ring but fitted with the same F1 tires that are now being used on the 2017 ZL1. The we can argue the facts and not your assumptions.
The fact is, you can't as the F1's in question were not available in December, 2011 when the 2012 Z06/Z07 and the ZR1 were run at the ring. How in the hell can you compare a tire that is not even released yet, that was developed specifically for the ZL1, to any other tire?
I can't believe that you are basing your opinion of a tire on one that was released back in 2005 for the C6 Z06 to a tire released in 2016 for the ZL1.
The fact is, you can't as the F1's in question were not available in December, 2011 when the 2012 Z06/Z07 and the ZR1 were run at the ring. How in the hell can you compare a tire that is not even released yet, that was developed specifically for the ZL1, to any other tire?
I can't believe that you are basing your opinion of a tire on one that was released back in 2005 for the C6 Z06 to a tire released in 2016 for the ZL1.
It's highly unlikely the F1's are as good as the Cup 2's. 'Anything' is possible...but it's unlikely. Time will likely prove this point correct and you can be sure I'll be the person to remind you. Your posts are ALWAYS argumentative and particularly disparaging to the C7Z06...I don't rag on your beloved C6....so why do you do it so often to the C7Z?
Lastly, by your very same logic, you can't prove the F1's are better than the Cup 2's or worse...LOL.
Last edited by ZoratZ06; 10-27-2016 at 10:39 PM.
10-27-2016, 11:11 PM
#119
Team Owner
You're a fairly hard headed guy. If the tires were 'so' impressive, the Z06 would've gotten them too. His point about the majority of top 100 laps on Cup's makes sense. Strange why so many super and hyper cars use them...weird, wouldn't you agree? Maybe they should all be using the F1's!!
It's highly unlikely the F1's are as good as the Cup 2's. 'Anything' is possible...but it's unlikely. Time will likely prove this point correct and you can be sure I'll be the person to remind you. Your posts are ALWAYS argumentative and particularly disparaging to the C7Z06...I don't rag on your beloved C6....so why do you do it so often to the C7Z?
Lastly, by your very same logic, you can't prove the F1's are better than the Cup 2's or worse...LOL.
It's highly unlikely the F1's are as good as the Cup 2's. 'Anything' is possible...but it's unlikely. Time will likely prove this point correct and you can be sure I'll be the person to remind you. Your posts are ALWAYS argumentative and particularly disparaging to the C7Z06...I don't rag on your beloved C6....so why do you do it so often to the C7Z?
Lastly, by your very same logic, you can't prove the F1's are better than the Cup 2's or worse...LOL.
I NEVER have made the a statement that the F1 for the ZL1 is better than the cup. BJ67 is the one arguing that the Cup is better than the F1 and he has absolutely no proof of that.
I don't know why GM didn't use the new F1 on he C7 Z06. Neither do you. But, just because they didn't, doesn't mean that it's a inferior tire. Maybe GM wanted Goodyear to concentrate on the sizes used on the ZL1 and not on the sizes used on the Z06. maybe when Michelin was working on tires for the C7, GM wasn't ready for tires to be developed for the ZL1. After all, the Z06 was released back in 2014, two years ago, so they had to be developed and tested before that.
But that really doesn't matter, because the tire is spec'd for the ZL1 and you can't argue with that. GM must have had a very good reason not to use Cup tires on the ZL1, and you don't have a clue why they made that decision.
Just because gM felt the Michelin tires were best for the Z06, dosen't mean that they were best for the ZL1.
Maybe Goodyear has gotten their act together and developed a tire that can run head to head with the Cup tires or maybe it's even better.
Why didn't Michelin get the contract for the tires used on the 2006 Z06? Could it be they didn't have a tire, at that time, that could perform as well as the Goodyear's in 2005?
maybe it was not until 2011, when GM switched to the cup tires for the Z06/Z07 and the ZR1, that Michelin had a better tire?
Maybe Goodyear has had time to develop a tire in the past 10 years that is just as good as the cup tires. Maybe that's why GM has switched to Goodyear tires for the ZL1.
Last edited by JoesC5; 10-27-2016 at 11:13 PM.
