Camaro sales slowing
11-10-2016, 08:26 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Camaro sales slowing
I read in the paper this morning that the assembly plant where Camaros & Cadillacs are built will suffer lay-offs and a shift closing next January due to slowing sales, as more people are buying pickups and SUV's. Not surprising
11-10-2016, 11:20 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
11-11-2016, 12:22 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
If they made a good looking Camaro, I would seriously look at buying one. I've owned two (3rd and 4th Gens), along with two Firebirds (3rd and 4th Gens). When the 5th Gen Camaro came out I didn't particularly care for it. Drove one, liked it even less (sight lines, ingress/egress). The 6th Gen is even worse IMO, particularly the front and rear.
I'm convinced GM stylists should be issued dark glasses and white canes.
11-11-2016, 01:13 PM
#7
Race Director
The issue with the Camaro is they made it too small, too hard to see out of, and too expensive.
They listened tot he auto journalists who don't buy cars, and made it more expensive, smaller, and lighter. Unfortunately, that doesn't work well for buyers, because you end up paying more for less.
The switch to Alpha was supposed to be this great thing, that was going to make it into a world class sports car. That's not what the buyers want though, they want inexpensive fun that they can live with every day.
GM as a whole needs to stop pretending about what they do, and who their buyers are. They keep thinking that they should build BMWs, in fact they have Caddy which is doing nothing but trying to imitate BMWs. They need to reconsider who buyers their cars and what they want.
Here's my formula for a successful Camaro. Base model starts at 25k, convertible at 26k. Base model should have a V6, low tech and inexpensive with around 280hp. It should be a torquey, low end grunty V6, sort of like the old 3800s. Step up engine should be a 5.3L V8, basically the same as was in the last generation Tahoe (no direct injection! No new tech, just a paid for and proven design), this would start at like 27k. SS can have your big hp engine, 400+ hp is fine, maybe even just use the LS3 again for price's sake. Start that at like $30k. You shouldn't be able to spend more than like, 37k for a loaded out Camaro, unless they continue the ZL1 and Z28 models. They need to stop with the crap like the eLSD, the Magneride, all that stuff in the Camaro. People want cheap fun in the car, not a car that wishes it was an M4.
They listened tot he auto journalists who don't buy cars, and made it more expensive, smaller, and lighter. Unfortunately, that doesn't work well for buyers, because you end up paying more for less.
The switch to Alpha was supposed to be this great thing, that was going to make it into a world class sports car. That's not what the buyers want though, they want inexpensive fun that they can live with every day.
GM as a whole needs to stop pretending about what they do, and who their buyers are. They keep thinking that they should build BMWs, in fact they have Caddy which is doing nothing but trying to imitate BMWs. They need to reconsider who buyers their cars and what they want.
Here's my formula for a successful Camaro. Base model starts at 25k, convertible at 26k. Base model should have a V6, low tech and inexpensive with around 280hp. It should be a torquey, low end grunty V6, sort of like the old 3800s. Step up engine should be a 5.3L V8, basically the same as was in the last generation Tahoe (no direct injection! No new tech, just a paid for and proven design), this would start at like 27k. SS can have your big hp engine, 400+ hp is fine, maybe even just use the LS3 again for price's sake. Start that at like $30k. You shouldn't be able to spend more than like, 37k for a loaded out Camaro, unless they continue the ZL1 and Z28 models. They need to stop with the crap like the eLSD, the Magneride, all that stuff in the Camaro. People want cheap fun in the car, not a car that wishes it was an M4.
11-11-2016, 04:11 PM
#8
just look at it.
11-15-2016, 10:24 PM
#10
they want inexpensive fun that they can live with every day.
GM as a whole needs to stop pretending about what they do, and who their buyers are. They keep thinking that they should build BMWs, in fact they have Caddy which is doing nothing but trying to imitate BMWs. They need to reconsider who buyers their cars and what they want.
They need to stop with the crap like the eLSD, the Magneride, all that stuff in the Camaro. People want cheap fun in the car, not a car that wishes it was an M4.
GM as a whole needs to stop pretending about what they do, and who their buyers are. They keep thinking that they should build BMWs, in fact they have Caddy which is doing nothing but trying to imitate BMWs. They need to reconsider who buyers their cars and what they want.
They need to stop with the crap like the eLSD, the Magneride, all that stuff in the Camaro. People want cheap fun in the car, not a car that wishes it was an M4.
11-19-2016, 02:09 AM
#11
Race Director
Member Since: Sep 2002
Location: Washington County, South UTAH
Posts: 13,986
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes
on
15 Posts
The issue with the Camaro is they made it too small, too hard to see out of, and too expensive.
They listened tot he auto journalists who don't buy cars, and made it more expensive, smaller, and lighter. Unfortunately, that doesn't work well for buyers, because you end up paying more for less.
The switch to Alpha was supposed to be this great thing, that was going to make it into a world class sports car. That's not what the buyers want though, they want inexpensive fun that they can live with every day.
GM as a whole needs to stop pretending about what they do, and who their buyers are. They keep thinking that they should build BMWs, in fact they have Caddy which is doing nothing but trying to imitate BMWs. They need to reconsider who buyers their cars and what they want.
Here's my formula for a successful Camaro. Base model starts at 25k, convertible at 26k. Base model should have a V6, low tech and inexpensive with around 280hp. It should be a torquey, low end grunty V6, sort of like the old 3800s. Step up engine should be a 5.3L V8, basically the same as was in the last generation Tahoe (no direct injection! No new tech, just a paid for and proven design), this would start at like 27k. SS can have your big hp engine, 400+ hp is fine, maybe even just use the LS3 again for price's sake. Start that at like $30k. You shouldn't be able to spend more than like, 37k for a loaded out Camaro, unless they continue the ZL1 and Z28 models. They need to stop with the crap like the eLSD, the Magneride, all that stuff in the Camaro. People want cheap fun in the car, not a car that wishes it was an M4.
They listened tot he auto journalists who don't buy cars, and made it more expensive, smaller, and lighter. Unfortunately, that doesn't work well for buyers, because you end up paying more for less.
The switch to Alpha was supposed to be this great thing, that was going to make it into a world class sports car. That's not what the buyers want though, they want inexpensive fun that they can live with every day.
GM as a whole needs to stop pretending about what they do, and who their buyers are. They keep thinking that they should build BMWs, in fact they have Caddy which is doing nothing but trying to imitate BMWs. They need to reconsider who buyers their cars and what they want.
Here's my formula for a successful Camaro. Base model starts at 25k, convertible at 26k. Base model should have a V6, low tech and inexpensive with around 280hp. It should be a torquey, low end grunty V6, sort of like the old 3800s. Step up engine should be a 5.3L V8, basically the same as was in the last generation Tahoe (no direct injection! No new tech, just a paid for and proven design), this would start at like 27k. SS can have your big hp engine, 400+ hp is fine, maybe even just use the LS3 again for price's sake. Start that at like $30k. You shouldn't be able to spend more than like, 37k for a loaded out Camaro, unless they continue the ZL1 and Z28 models. They need to stop with the crap like the eLSD, the Magneride, all that stuff in the Camaro. People want cheap fun in the car, not a car that wishes it was an M4.
Sounds like a plan!
11-19-2016, 03:21 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Was going to say, it's not like the competition is doing well either. The problem with the 6th gen is that new/used 5th gen cars are available for a good price. With such a huge gap after the 4th gen went out of production, it was a huge step up along with a ton of nostalgia.
11-21-2016, 01:06 AM
#13
Le Mans Master
I disagree. I think the move to the Alpha platform was a good move. Have you driven one? The handling is extremely crisp now. It really drives well, similar to my C5. The power on the SS is phenomenal.
I do agree they went to too heavy on the price increases, and didn't do enough to restyle the car to make it fresh. I couldn't tell the two gens apart when they first came out. That was a mistake.
Michael
I do agree they went to too heavy on the price increases, and didn't do enough to restyle the car to make it fresh. I couldn't tell the two gens apart when they first came out. That was a mistake.
Michael
11-21-2016, 12:19 PM
#15
Weird its the best Camaro they have ever made. It a 4 seater Corvette pretty much at a much lower price. The performance numbers are unreal. The dealers are giving them away with deep discounts. Makes no sense that they aren't selling. I think the enthusiast buyer is becoming less and less.
11-22-2016, 07:27 AM
#16
Drifting
Just traded my C-6 for a Mustang.
Tried out the Camaro and really didn't like it.
Drove nicely and had tons of power but I couldn't get comfortable in it.
Got in a Mustang and it was wonderful.
With the Mustang assembly line closed down and dealers swimming in pony cars got a great deal.
I miss the vette as there's nothing like it but, still I'm happy
USAF
Tried out the Camaro and really didn't like it.
Drove nicely and had tons of power but I couldn't get comfortable in it.
Got in a Mustang and it was wonderful.
With the Mustang assembly line closed down and dealers swimming in pony cars got a great deal.
I miss the vette as there's nothing like it but, still I'm happy
USAF
11-23-2016, 10:18 AM
#17
Safety Car
Owned a dozen 4th gens, three 5th gens, and now a 6th gen SS. The cars have improved with each generation, but unfortunately the price has gone up too much for the target market. Those complaining about not seeing out of them, have never owned one. Total nonsense, unless you are under 5' tall. The Corvettes and Vipers have much worse blind spots, but nobody complains about it. My wife has daily driven all three gens, no complaints. The newest ones are very nice inside, much higher quality than the gen 5.
11-23-2016, 10:42 PM
#18
Race Director
Weird its the best Camaro they have ever made. It a 4 seater Corvette pretty much at a much lower price. The performance numbers are unreal. The dealers are giving them away with deep discounts. Makes no sense that they aren't selling. I think the enthusiast buyer is becoming less and less.
The Alpha platform is probably great for a sports car. Put the Corvette on it, it would be great. But for a cheap thrills car, it makes it very expensive, and ruins the car. People don't buy Camaros for sharp steering and a great chassis, they buy them for cheap v8 burnouts and fun. And $40k+ is not cheap burnouts.
The enthusiast buyer is out there still, but they're being quickly priced out of the market by the automakers. The enthusiast buyer still has to pay their bills, and nowdays is likely to also be a bit older than before (ie be married and have a wife to listen to, maybe have kids and need something practical, etc), or will be swimming in student loan debt and not be able to afford as expensive of a car as someone a generation ago could have. So the enthusiast buyer is turning to what they can afford - used sports cars and sporty versions of more mundane cars. Cars like the GTI, Focus ST, etc. are taking the buyers who previously would have considered a v8 pony car because despite not being as fast, as sharp, etc. they can afford them and have fun in them.
Cars nowdays have just gotten too fast and capable to be fun. I recently bought a 2017 STI and it's WAY more fun than either of my C6s were. I can romp on it a little bit and I'm not going to jail due to speed. It might be not quite as pretty, but it does what it can. I do miss the targa roof and the svelte profile, but in terms of driving the car, my STI is way better in every qualitative measurement while still doing enough in the quantitative measurements. The domestics need to make their more mundane pony cars a bit more fun if they want them to survive.
Last edited by FAUEE; 11-23-2016 at 10:49 PM.
11-26-2016, 06:46 AM
#19
Race Director
The price went up about ten percent if not 20 percent from the fifth gen to the sixth gen plus ford and dodge were offering huge incentives against the technically superior camaro 6 the gen..
Add in the evolutionary fifth gen like styling and many fifth gen owners said .....why bother?
GM added some sweet incentives to bring the actual transaction pricing equal to the fifth gen camaro equivalent and sales have taken off..
Sales at full msrp weren't bad and I'm sure GM had their business plan in place....now that the first year is done...they are on schedule to offer incentives...and unit sales will climb...
I would have preferred a more adventuresome design for the sheet metal but technically the 6 the gen is awesome...
For me..it's really in the details...I really dislike the rear air foil wing that looks like it came off a 1994 Camry....
Luckily I've seen ducktail like spoiler options along with a blackout rear panel between the tail lights...
Looked dam good at the seam show and hopefully GM will follow suit in production..
Just remember tha 60 grand ZL1 will crush most porsches ....
That SS is a bad *** too...
Add in the evolutionary fifth gen like styling and many fifth gen owners said .....why bother?
GM added some sweet incentives to bring the actual transaction pricing equal to the fifth gen camaro equivalent and sales have taken off..
Sales at full msrp weren't bad and I'm sure GM had their business plan in place....now that the first year is done...they are on schedule to offer incentives...and unit sales will climb...
I would have preferred a more adventuresome design for the sheet metal but technically the 6 the gen is awesome...
For me..it's really in the details...I really dislike the rear air foil wing that looks like it came off a 1994 Camry....
Luckily I've seen ducktail like spoiler options along with a blackout rear panel between the tail lights...
Looked dam good at the seam show and hopefully GM will follow suit in production..
Just remember tha 60 grand ZL1 will crush most porsches ....
That SS is a bad *** too...
11-28-2016, 01:40 AM
#20
Race Director
my next car will probably a 2012 or newer SS Camaro manual trans, of course..........it may not look like much but it handles very well and the Corvette LS3 drive train speaks for itself 
Last edited by ClipperFan; 11-28-2016 at 01:41 AM.