last901

Is it just me or do any of you kinda' get the feeling sometimes that what w're seeing on televised auctions is not what it really is?

While I maybe rightfully accused of casting aspersions (look it up Walter) Some of the results and activities I see on the current Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale auction seem odd.

I've only watched it briefly during the last couple of evenings and, of course, tonight is the "big night". I often get upset over some of the deals I see, but watch it anyway as a sort of guilty pleasure.

I see people bidding close to $100K for cars that shouldn't IMO sell for that kind of money. Indeed, the other night I noticed several $100K+ buyers who look as though they were all residents in the same retirement home. Something doesn't feel right here...

Is it just me or am I simply just oversensitive to what seems like some sleazy goings on in the name of entertainment. You know, kinda' like pro wrestling but with checkbooks and over cars?

Why is it that so many people crowd the stage/ramp when most of the bidders seem to come from the audience or from phone buyers - yah, right - while any competitive bidding on the ramp never seems to involve more than two people?

I'm not suggesting all is not above board (although I have reason to believe there are some mysterious dealings taking place behind the scenes)

I'm just posting this for casual discussion and to see if any of you feel as I do and find yourself feeling as thought you need to take a shower after about an hour of watching the broadcast.

Just saying; I'll watch it anyway. Sure beats reruns of "Wheel of Fortune"

DidntSettle

I watch B-J sometimes, but have grown not to like them for many reasons, some of which you have stated Phil.. But I DO like Mecum, and watch that whenever I can...they seem to aim a little more directed to the proletariat and I'm just more comfortable there. Not a lot of oxygen in the high altitude air of B-J .

Mufflerbearing

I have watched Barrett-Jackson for years and when I sold my C5 at their first Reno show in 2013 I decided they are truly the Barnum & Bailey of auction houses. Lots of show and flash and a hospitality night for bidders and consignors that is really top drawer. Live music, hot babes everywhere and all the catered food and drink you can consume. The stage does lend itself to the glory seekers who, although slow moving are always following the camera crews to position themselves in a shot somewhere. I have been to Scottsdale once as a spectator and came away thinking it was a great experience because there is a lot more to see and do than is shown on TV and it is their largest show.

Mr. Peabody

Hey I resemble that remark

Ian and I went to the Scottsdale auction a few years ago as a bucket list item for me. I put up the bucks for us to sit in the bidders section and had a great time.

Some observations:
On Wed and Thursday there are some reasonably priced cars and a few of them actually go for what I considered a bargain price in the mid $20’s to mid $30's.

On these two days it seemed like half of the cars were actually being bought by people bidding up on the stage. The majority of these cars looked like drivers.

By Friday the cars are only affordable by someone like Walter and I am no expert at all but the majority of them, while really nice, seemed to be over priced and bought by people who look like they’ve led a very well-tended life and for whom money is not an issue.

On Friday and Saturday the real buyers are all sitting in the bidder’s area with the help of those “bidders assistants”. Even in the bidders section, the center front 10 rows were specially reserved for those who had spent in excess of a $million in previous years

I would say that on Friday and Saturday more than half of the cars were bought by people who were buying multiple cars for their collections. We sat near a guy who bought almost a dozen cars for his high-end store. His shirt pocket was full of montblanc pens. Each time you are the successful bidder they give you a montblanc fountain pen to sign the documents.

I agree what goes on up on the stage is only the half of it. There is so much to see and do it really does seem like a 20 ring circus.

The most interesting thing that I observed over the 4 days that we were there is that the cars actually look way better on TV than they do in real life. I mean like 20% better. We’d go back to our hotel in the evening and watch the replay on (at that time) the speed network and were amazed how much better the paint on the cars looked on TV than when we were actually there. They have those TV lights down to a real science and it makes the paint really pop.

Would I do it again? Yep I think so. Actually being there was a blast. The only downside is that you have to learn to sit on your hands LOL.

last901

I confess, owing to Pat and Mark's comments in their posts. I had - having never attended - neglected to consider the "show" aspect of it with lots of cars to see and admire, plus vendor exhibits and the like.

I still believe there are some sleazy things going on here, and from what I learned yesterday, even Mecum is not adverse to doing some (possibly) less-than-ethical practices.

Admittedly, I have been to neither B-J nor to Mecum or any other auctions save for the those I attended in the old Seattle Coliseum (nee Key Arena) and the Tacoma Dome. The latter at which I bought a '63 Cadillac DeVille and which led to a decision regarding my marriage. That was eventually resolved. All turned out well and is too long a story to share here, unless you're a big fan of the TV series, "Cops". I eventually broke even on the deal, but had to agree to no longer drink "that much" within two days of attending any auto auction.

So, yes, overall the auctions may very well be a good place to pick up a nice car. Just be aware that there might be some shady dealings going on behind the scenes, but if you do your homework (and don't drink too much) you may find something wonderful.

End of diatribe.

KenHorse

If you're referring to this latest round of auctions, are these not the Pratt Collection cars and doesn't that make them "worth more" than a non Pratt car?

last901

Not necessarily. Unique cars like that Pontiac Bonneville that came up last night, are special and worth of high prices no matter who owns it beforehand. Personally I do not think Ron Pratt holds any real, ah, special interest other than his collection itself. Now, a collection by say, Carroll Shelby or maybe even Rick Hendrick might carry some cachet, but who is Ron Pratt, at least in terms of making his collection more valuable than any other collection, all other things being equal?

Maybe I'm simply out of touch, but I have no idea who he is and so unless it's a one-of-a-kind car and available no where else, what does Ron Pratt add to the appeal.

seattle

I am in AZ right now. I went to BJ auction on Friday for my first time. It is huge with so many tents; cars and people that it becomes too much to absorb. I even did the GM test drive and a hot lap in a new Stingray with a Bondurant driver. That was a blast. It is something to see for sure. It is like going to car guy's version of Disneyland.

last901

So, you mean it's kind of a "Mickey Mouse" operation?

Forgive me. From what I've been hearing, all the ancillary activities are mostly the reason for going.

tomZ51

I have been attending B-J for the last dozen or so years. Speed Channel really made B-J grow into what it is today. Some of my observations as a spectator, bidder and consignor. As mentioned, some of the early days of the auction, there are some good cars at reasonable prices, however, when the cameras go on, the prices tend to trend upwards. Also, Craig Jackson is no where to be seen until the cameras are turned on. As one with a type A personality, he also carries quite the large....ego. The real money shows up around Thursday night and then carries through until Saturday night. Sunday there are some great cars, but the money has gone home. I feel that is the best day to purchase a car. I would purchase a car on Sunday in hopes to get it reconsigned the next year for Thursday night. I don't purchase and sell 10-20 cars an event, so I can not sell on Friday or Saturday regardless of the value of the car. Case in point. I just sold a '31 Ford Vicky with a matching mid '40's Coca Cola trailer. The best day I could get was Sunday prime time. The money did go home as expected the night before, but it still brought ok money. Not the money that would have been brought if it was Thursday night. There was a '31 Ford sedan that was placed in the main tent, was green and brown, not polished or cleaned and went through on Friday. Just some of the games they play with those that support by buying and selling a lot of cars and those that do not.

Now Mecum. They are an interesting auction house. Having dealt with them as well, the biggest challenge that I have with them is this. They can ghost bid up to the reserve. Meaning the auctioneer can bid up the price of a car with only one bidder until they stop. We see it a lot on TV. How many times is a car sold right after the reserve is lifted? Almost all. B-J, there is a contract that a consignor can not buy back his own car or even bid on it. If it is found out that a friend bid on your car, there are consequences of not coming back.

It is ultimately a great show. B-J has garnered the attention of big dollar buyers and great consignors. Just think, they only charge 8% and 10% with an additional $1000 stage time of 3 minutes. It really is a great gig to get almost 20% of each car sold! I wish I had put together this circus. Worth tens of millions each event.

last901

Great review. Gives us a lot of insight into what's going on with these events. Thanks

last901

Thanks everyone for helping me to understand these auction activities. Despite my suspicions about some of the goings on, I watched a lot of the Barrett-Jackson action last weekend. Now I have another question?

It concerns some of these "charity" auctions. For example, other than it was a BMW, I barely recall the model that was auctioned for charity the other evening. Rick Hendricks, a BMW dealer himself, bid and "won" the car at some really high price. Well over the MSRP of the car. Seems like the final bid was something like $750K. Really doesn't matter.

What I'd like to know is how these charity auctions work. Why, for example, would a BMW dealer bid such an exorbitant price for something he could acquire through his own dealership at less than retail price?

As with most dealers, Hendricks could add the car to his inventory, without having to license it or pay taxes. He could pay only a modest amount of interest by "flooring it" as he probably does with most of his inventory. Of course, I presume whatever flooring charges he pays is deductible as a business expense.

So, does he write a check to B-J for whatever the car sold for, plus buyer's premium? Does he floor the car at the price he "paid" for the car?

Does the entire amount of the winning bid actually go to the charity for which it was sold? If so, does this allow Hendricks (or any other dealer in the same situation) to take that amount and declare it as a business expense or charitable deduction? (even though, if he floored the car he never actually paid the full amount to the auction company, other than by way of the flooring company?)

My earlier suspicions notwithstanding, I'm not suggesting that there's anything sinister going on here. It's probably all legitimate and legal. I just don't understand where all the money goes and to whom.

If you were a BMW dealer, why would you pay many times over the retail price of this car, even if it was for charity? Why not just write a check directly to the charity in question and not even bother to bid on the car in the first place.

Just curious.

Evilash

I was told when Ron bought serial number 3 Ford GT he paid $650k. $500k over msrp which went to the Shelby foundation. So he paid retail for the car but a half mil to have the first one available and a charitable donation to his friends foundation.
I don't know the particulars of the b-j fee though.