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Old 08-19-2010, 09:32 PM   #1
blackbeauty74
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Default Matrix Paint System???

Can anyone tell me does Matrix produce any quality paints? I was talking with a guy today about painting my car and he said that he likes using Matrix products. He is a authorized sprayer for them and he told me that they would guarentee the paint for the lifetime that I owned the car. He mentioned using something called euro clear. I've been checking his work out for a while now and he does good work, but im just not sure about this Matrix paint.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:46 PM   #2
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I've been using it for over 10 years and I've never had an issue/problem with the Matrix Paint System. It's a good price for an excellant product. The base formulas will match all factory paint on OEM car's. It sprays nicely and the Clear is easy to cut and buff.

Marty.

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Old 08-20-2010, 11:37 PM   #3
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Thanks alot.
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Old 08-21-2010, 10:33 AM   #4
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With the succes that "orourke" has had with it for over 10 years says a lot. Nice looking Mustang ...by the way. No issues or problems makes it a system that can be trusted. I used it a few times a long, long time ago. And I had no problems with it...but I chose to go another route instead. But it still gave me great results.

With the shop that you are looking into doing this work GUARANTEES their work. That is the main thing. Have you seen this shop paint any Corvettes like yours or pre-1984? When dealing with the urethane bumpers ...like on your 1974 ( if still original urethane) requires a slightly different "mind-set" along with the body material that your car is made out of.

Working on metal cars all the time is one thing...but doing a fiberglass/SMC car is something totally different. Because it does not really matter on the paint system... to a point...but rather the prep. repair techniques and the undercoats that are used for good adhesion.

I would have to guess that this shop has done a few. And KNOWS the difference. That would be my primary concern...more than how good the paint looks. If the prep, repairs and undercoats for adhesion are not the best possible...then the best paint in the world will not stick.

But their GUARANTEE is the "ACE up your sleeve".

Best of luck in your project,
"DUB"
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Old 08-21-2010, 03:07 PM   #5
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Thank you.
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Old 08-22-2010, 12:48 AM   #6
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Thank you, "DUB".

Marty.
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Old 08-22-2010, 11:10 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by orourke View Post
Thank you, "DUB".

Marty.
Marty,
NO...THANK YOU.... for your reply to his concerns. And you would have to be blind to not see that your Mustang ( in the photo you provided) LOOKS VERY NICE! Regardless of whatever type of car is ever shown on this forum. If it looks RIGHT..I will let that person know my opinion of it. And I do KNOW what it takes to make cars look that nice.

A box of "Band-aid's", a bottle of aspirin and a bottle or two of "Pepto-bismol".
"DUB"
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:52 PM   #8
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Ive heard some locals around here say that it is good, quality stuff but that they have had problems getting color matches perfect with the system. Of course it could just be bias, everyone has what they like and have gotten used to.
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Old 08-22-2010, 05:02 PM   #9
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Ive heard some locals around here say that it is good, quality stuff but that they have had problems getting color matches perfect with the system. Of course it could just be bias, everyone has what they like and have gotten used to.
"crossed" and others who may want to know this FACT.

There are so many variants to a color that occur during a production year...that NEALRY ALL paint manufacturers have some type of "paint chip" system with colors sprayed out on them and they show the changes in the color.

These variant colors are created by the paint manufacturer by painters sending in actual panels for a formula....and the paint manufacturer keeps this formula on hand or on file. When another panel or two are sent in...and matches this formula...often tiimes it is added to the color deck as a variant. A paint manufacturer may have 20 variants on file to a specific color...but only 4 made it into the variant color deck. The other 16 have not yet had a second/third panel come in that matches it.

First you have the PRIME or Number 1 color. Which is what the factory chose to paint the car. BUT in reality. The toners and pigments used in making these colors ...often times get mixed incorrectly for what ever reason. SO the color can be "cleaner, darker, redder, bluer, lighter on the angle, and paint that has not totally covered the undercoat and so on. And when you add into the age of the paint and what the sun has done to it. It changes it further.

So when people go out and buy paint thinking that the person who mixes it is mixing it EXACTLY to the gram (or part)...and spray it to the edge of a panel and expect it to match exactly. They have another thing coming.

This is where shooting a test panel and clearing it and checking the sprayed mixed color to the panel or adjacent panel for a GOOD BLENDABLE color match. Expecting that you will get a color to PERFECTLY BUTT match is a joke. It occurs...but very, very, very rarely. Even in solid colors. A GOOD trained eye can find it fast....if there is a color change.

So these individuals who have bad things to say about whatever paint system they are trying to use. I would bet that none of them know any of this or even spray out a test panel to check the color. I shoot a spray out card on all jobs that require blending into factory paint...or paint that has been re-shot and aged. What may look good close up...look like heck when you get it outside under different types of light and from a distance. And also the painter can change the color of the paint by adjusting the gun and their spray techniques while spraying these test panels. So the color that "they" thought was "wrong" may have worked...if the painter knew what they were doing....or even tried to test it.

"DUB"
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Old 08-23-2010, 05:02 PM   #10
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DUB, it took me two bottles of Asprin for that job! (Masking Tape makes a good band-aid by the way).

I've never had a problem blending. I worked for a Custom shop that did exactly what "DUB" does. It was a high end shop and I learned a ton from them and blending paint was the most valuable lesson. It was easier since we used PPG.

I, myself don't have access to Toner's and an in house mixing bank to tweak the base and match with spray out panels. It takes a lot of time and a good eye. At the former Shop, we could use up to 6 spray out panels to match the finish. Paint variables were a factor.

I have my paint matched by using a part off the Car to make sure I have the correct blendable base, then use a product called "Color Blender" to perform my blend. It has never missed for me.Metallic's and Pearls and paint age can be a real challange. I never "panel paint" a Car. You'll see it a mile away. You need a lot of room to get an undetectable blend.

The very inexpensive Paint systems can be a big challange to blend if they ever match at all.It takes skill and knowlege of the materials. It's something to think about when you ever get your Car painted/repaired.


Marty.

Last edited by orourke; 08-23-2010 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
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DUB, it took me two bottles of Asprin for that job! (Masking Tape makes a good band-aid by the way).
Marty,
ONLY TWO bottles of aspirin. Thats doing pretty good.

YEAH...masking tape works well when you are in the "zone" and do not have time ( or want ot TAKE the time) to CORRECTLY perform first aid. The ol' "lick, peel and stick" method works well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orourke View Post
I've never had a problem blending. I worked for a Custom shop that did exactly what "DUB" does. It was a high end shop and I learned a ton from them and blending paint was the most valuable lesson. It was easier since we used PPG.

I, myself don't have access to Toner's and an in house mixing bank to tweak the base and match with spray out panels. It takes a lot of time and a good eye. At the former Shop, we could use up to 6 spray out panels to match the finish. Paint variables were a factor.

I have my paint matched by using a part off the Car to make sure I have the correct blendable base, then use a product called "Color Blender" to perform my blend. It has never missed for me.Metallic's and Pearls and paint age can be a real challange. I never "panel paint" a Car. You'll see it a mile away. You need a lot of room to get an undetectable blend.

The very inexpensive Paint systems can be a big challange to blend if they ever match at all.It takes skill and knowlege of the materials. It's something to think about when you ever get your Car painted/repaired.


Marty.
100%
ONCE AGAIN...it just goes to show you what EXPERIENCE provides. AND it is not just ME. It gives you the knowledge of KNOWING what to do, HOW to do it and WHEN to do it. AND last but not least....TAKING the TIME to do it.

I use a "basefade" product...along with a "fade-out thinner" in my paint system. Along with a detailed step by step procedure for blending in some of these "tricky" metallics and tri-stage pearl paint jobs. It is not as easy as "mix", "strain" and "shoot". Eventhough "some" my say/think it is that way.

Just as long as those of you "first timers" who choose to paint your own car. Do some RESEARCH and ask questions about the system of your choice. Problems can be greatly reduced with this knowledge.

"DUB"
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:30 PM   #12
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I'm just a weekend warrior hoping to finish my vette eventually, I am in no way the expert you are, but I had a conversation a few months ago at a cruise in where a couple of the local pros were having this almost exact conversation and that's the only reason I said anything. From what they were saying Matrix doesn't have the resources and money to put into their system to create the many variations for every single factory color the way you're talking about. They do to an extent, but not to the point the really large companies do. That's what I meant when I brought up the color matching. Blending is a little bit of a separate issue because when you know what you're doing you can make it work, but two weeks ago I walked into the Dupont shop for a quart of paint and clear to repaint the rear of our family car (I used the gas cap cover for matching) and they had like 15 variations of Toyota super white. I dont think Matrix has that type of support for their "paint chip" system. You're right though, I could be completely wrong. I've never used Matrix and I'm going solely on hearsay from my buddies.
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:54 PM   #13
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I'm just a weekend warrior hoping to finish my vette eventually, I am in no way the expert you are, but I had a conversation a few months ago at a cruise in where a couple of the local pros were having this almost exact conversation and that's the only reason I said anything. From what they were saying Matrix doesn't have the resources and money to put into their system to create the many variations for every single factory color the way you're talking about. They do to an extent, but not to the point the really large companies do. That's what I meant when I brought up the color matching. Blending is a little bit of a separate issue because when you know what you're doing you can make it work, but two weeks ago I walked into the Dupont shop for a quart of paint and clear to repaint the rear of our family car (I used the gas cap cover for matching) and they had like 15 variations of Toyota super white. I dont think Matrix has that type of support for their "paint chip" system. You're right though, I could be completely wrong. I've never used Matrix and I'm going solely on hearsay from my buddies.
Yeah, Most professional painters would choose a system that provides these "color decks" to give painted variations to a specific color. Much like the Toyota color your mentioned. And by the way...as solid colors go...WHITE is a very hard color to match. BUT ...even with these decks. A spray out is needed to be performed due to variables. And like ALL paint manufacturers that I know of. The decks can not be used for EXACT COLOR match information. SO...Spraying out a card is required. That is why they make these spray out cards. It all falls back on gun set-up and other variables that can change the color....even though the color on the deck is darn near perfect.

AND even if MATRIX does not have a color library that is extensive to the point of providing color decks. DOES NOT mean that the color can not be tinted at the point of sale...if needed.

"crossed"... I am glad that you brought this up and mentioned it. All it is doing is further giving you ( and others) information that can allow you (and others) to make better decisions on how to repair your (their) own cars in the future.

"DUB"
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:44 AM   #14
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One of my buddies is a chemist for a very large chemical company and he's in the surface coatings division, he swears Matrix is the best "budget" clear he's ever sprayed. He and I have a difference of opinion on the clears because I prefer the Southern Polyurethanes High Solids universal clear. I no longer sand and buff since I started spraying it.

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Old 08-25-2010, 01:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crossed View Post
I'm just a weekend warrior hoping to finish my vette eventually, I am in no way the expert you are, but I had a conversation a few months ago at a cruise in where a couple of the local pros were having this almost exact conversation and that's the only reason I said anything. From what they were saying Matrix doesn't have the resources and money to put into their system to create the many variations for every single factory color the way you're talking about. They do to an extent, but not to the point the really large companies do. That's what I meant when I brought up the color matching. Blending is a little bit of a separate issue because when you know what you're doing you can make it work, but two weeks ago I walked into the Dupont shop for a quart of paint and clear to repaint the rear of our family car (I used the gas cap cover for matching) and they had like 15 variations of Toyota super white. I dont think Matrix has that type of support for their "paint chip" system. You're right though, I could be completely wrong. I've never used Matrix and I'm going solely on hearsay from my buddies.
My Paint vender say's they're still adding to their catalog. They have a lot of catching up to do though. I'm very lucky, Christina who mix's my Base,has that eye for tinting Base's. That's one less bottle of Asprin.

Marty.

Last edited by orourke; 08-25-2010 at 01:52 AM.
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:39 PM   #16
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My Paint vender say's they're still adding to their catalog. They have a lot of catching up to do though. I'm very lucky, Christina who mix's my Base,has that eye for tinting Base's. That's one less bottle of Asprin.

Marty.
Marty,
YES... you are lucky to have someone who can tint for you...and do it well.

And for the bottles of aspirin that you don't have to buy...I am buying them. Because...I am the LUCKY one who tints all of my colors.

"DUB"
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:48 AM   #17
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Marty.
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Old 08-26-2010, 06:30 PM   #18
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Click the image to open in full size.

Marty.
Marty,
Thanks...After the day I had today... I REALLY needed this. Sometimes random acts of kindness can help so much. MUCH APPRECIATED!!!!

"DUB"
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:23 PM   #19
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Ive used Matrix brand paint a few times and like it alot. Ive never had to do any color matching with it, but for a complete respray (price vs quality), they are hard to beat.
Even their value line called "Refinish solutions" is good.
The only reason I don't use matrix paint more often is because they are hard to get here in NC. Ive always had to order it from out west and wait 7-10 days. Other then that Matrix is comparable with all other major brand paints.
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:23 PM
 
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