Paint/Body Corvette Materials, Techniques, and How To

Vette Panel Adheshive/Filler Questions

Old 01-09-2015, 11:38 PM
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gjohnson
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Default Vette Panel Adheshive/Filler Questions

Getting ready to redo the fender body seams on my 76 w/VPA.Car has to usual lines showing thru w/a few small cracks from the original filler. My question is upon reading the label it says that if using a base/clear coat paint you must use Evercoats Polyester glazing putty as a finishing coat to prevent staining. Staining??Can some elaborate on this. I always read that you can just use VPA sanded to a finish then prime/seal. Thanks
Old 01-10-2015, 05:38 PM
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DUB
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Originally Posted by gjohnson
Getting ready to redo the fender body seams on my 76 w/VPA.Car has to usual lines showing thru w/a few small cracks from the original filler. My question is upon reading the label it says that if using a base/clear coat paint you must use Evercoats Polyester glazing putty as a finishing coat to prevent staining. Staining??Can some elaborate on this. I always read that you can just use VPA sanded to a finish then prime/seal. Thanks
MANY, MANY, MANY years ago...the Vette Panel Adhesive came with RED hardener....which could bleed into some colors...such as white and make it pink where the VPA was applied knowing that you have BLUE hardener( OR SHOULD)....do not worry about it because I seriously doubt you are painting with lacquer and using a VERY GOOD primer and sealer. I use the VPA exclusively for body work on the fiberglass/SMC body panels and I never worry about staining or 'bleed-thru'. I do not use any glazing putties....they are super soft...and I have used the VPA from start to finish for so long with NO problems....SO...why change what works. And the Evercoat polyester glazing putty uses a BLUE hardener. The use of BLUE hardener has basically become a standard for exterior fillers.

Many of the 'warning and cautions' written on the can are due to idiots using it well beyond what it was designed for.....so Evercoat HAS TO put information on it so they are not paying to repairs where someone used it for 'something' it was not intended for. They write that is it NOT for structural....nut it really is....but it depends on what you are doing with it. 'Some people' were bonding fiberglass body kits to STEEL and expecting it to work...and did not...so that is why some of what is written I do not pay any attention to because I am NOT an idiot and have been using it for well over 30 years now.

IT is GREAT that you read the can.....I APPLAUD you for that. AND actually asked a question...I applaud you for that also.


IF you have not used the VPA...there are some 'tricks/procedures' so you do not wear yourself out using it, mixing it, applying it. This stuff gets HARD....so timing it critical...depending on it your spread filler like stucco or not. You have been warned.

DUB
Old 01-10-2015, 08:01 PM
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gjohnson
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Thank You DUB. I very much appreciate your reply
Old 01-12-2015, 10:16 AM
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Default Vpa

Getting ready to use VPA on the '62 so I would love to hear your "Tricks and Procedures"
Old 01-12-2015, 12:18 PM
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Default Me too!

Me too! :

It would be nice if you could get the moderators to make stickies out of some of the invaluable advice DUB and Porchdog have provided here.
Old 01-12-2015, 04:16 PM
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:06 PM
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***WARNING**** LONG POST

OK...I usually prefer talking on the phone to Forum members and letting them know the 'ins and outs' of VPA.

FOR WHAT THIS IS WORTH FOR THOSE WHO MAY CARE:

VPA is NOT a BONDO. That is like saying a CORVETTE is just like a CHEVETTE. So yes...you add hardener to VPA just like 'Bondo'...and apply it much the same way....and sand it. But the capabilities of VPA outweigh BONDO much like the performance and handling of a CORVETTE outweigh a CHEVETTE.

ALWAYS....and I MEAN ALWAYS verify and CONFIRM ...even if you have to call EVERCOAT DIRECTLY and MAKE SURE that the DATE CODE on your can of VPA ( or any other product) is in the 'window' of being a good usable product. You skip this...then the PROBLEMS are ALL ON YOU. "Why are you so demanding on this issue"...you may ask. BECAUSE this product is NOT generally used...so stock in some auto body supply houses may be old...or it has been sitting on a shelf where the SUN can bake the can EVERYDAY....or out in a FREEZER BOX of a warehouse.

When you get it make sure that you stir it VERY WELL...and I mean VERY WELL...and I can spend 30+ minutes a in getting it all good and consistent. And...often times...when I get my fresh new gallon..I go and mix it.... BUT DO NOT use it right away....because I know I still have some on my other gallon and I can come in the next day and mix my fresh stuff some more and then use it.

" Why not use it right away???" Well I can and I have ( sorry about the contradiction)...BUT what I also KNOW is that if I am using freshly mixed VPA....when I am mixing it on my mixing board...I am really mashing it hard to work out any air that may still be present from the stirring that I just performed.

The VPA is a heavy body filler.....so thus it is somewhat thicker.....but yet it can still be runny and want to run off a panel of you are applying too much at one time.

SO...making sure you mash it out by picking up the VPA on your spreader and mashing it down and spreading it across your mixing board is what I do and I do it quickly. Depending on the volume I am mixing....a 'golf ball' size I will pick up and mash out about 50 times in one minute. VERIFY the color is consistent and then I am ready to apply.

Now...if you spread the VPA and it looks like 'stucco'. The main thing is to make sure that you STAY WITH it when it is beginning to set up...and DO NOT walk away. The reason is...that there is a very short window of time ( depending on how much hardener you used and the air temps at the time) that will allow you to do some sanding on the VPA to get it close to the end result.

I do not spread like I am spreading 'stucco'...BUT YES...there are some times when it looks like stucco because the process I am doing just does not allow me to worry about how slick I am applying it on the INITIAL APPLICATION. SO...when I have a 'stucco' appearance to my VPA...I stand there with my 36 grit on my sanding block, radiator hose section or long board and I feel the VPA. Using this stuff for 30+ years I know what I am waiting for...but what you want to do is scuff across the VPA and then look at your 36 grit sand paper and see if clogged the paper. NOW...will the VPA pop out of the paper by smacking it with a paint stick???? If the VPA was still the paper and a little 'gooey'...you need to wait about another MINUTE and test again. WHAT you are wanting to happen is that when you sand across the VPA and when it clogs your paper...you 'pop' it with the paint stick and a majority of the VPA falls out. WHEN that happens...you BETTER get to sanding FAST. Stopping and cleaning you paper with the paint stick and KEEP MOVING QUICKLY.

"Why am I doing this????" Because.... when the VPA is at that stage of being a little bit 'gummy' but gong towards the SOLID/CURED stage...is the BEST time to sand any major defects in your application. YES...you can use a 'cheese grater' if you like. But you better haul @ss.... because..... LITERALLY...in one stoke with the cheese grater it bites in and takes out some VPA...and then the next stroke...it does NOTHING and just glides across the surface....and YES...it can happen that quick!

YES...you can wait and let it cure and use air sanders. Me...I prefer to get it 'roughed in' by hand. BUT....depending on the amount of surface area I am doing...sometimes I will use my sanders to get it 'kinda' close.....then re-apply my final coat of VPA and then do it by hand so I know I am getting it right.and do it manually.

AS a starting point...I tell people that a 'golf ball' size of VPA to ONE INCH of blue cream hardener. BUT the main thing is that I KNOW the color that I am wanting when the VPA mixes with the blue hardener.....and I try to keep ALL of my mixes VERY CONSISTENT. SO...do NOT mix up one batch that look as blue as the blue field in the American flag...and then you next batch is light baby blue. If you did that working for me...you would be grinding it ALL back out and doing it over again. This ratio I gave is just a 'starting point'...because in the heat of the summer...i may lessen the hardener amount if I need some more work time...and in the winter months..I may add some more hardener.

Knowing that you mash the VPA when you mixed it...then when applying it DO NOT PLAY around with it. REMEMBER ...applying a thinner ...more controllable coat is better than you trying to apply it all in one coat and having to fight it. BECAUSE...when my employees would see me doing a large fill with a lot of VPA...and they tried to do it...one of those 'Monkey see---monkey do' scenarios. When they ground and sanded the VPA...they had air bubbles in it due to their spreading technique.

So ...If I had an area prepped an sanded and cleaned and ready for VPA...I take a small amount and spread the VPA onto the surface and apply a lot of pressure making sure that I am forcing the VPA into the textured surface. NOW...with there being a 'wet-bed' of VPA. I can apply the rest of the VPA and spread it out accordingly. EVEN if I have to put some VPA on my spreader and begin filling in a bonding seam on the driver side quarter and starting at the rear and moving towards the door opening...for example. I would put about a 1/2' round bead of VPA on my spreader and apply it and move towards the door area and stop....refill my spreader the same and do it again starting where I left off...then keep doing this all the way to the end. NOW...you have a covered bonding seam with a lot of 'starts and stops'. This is when I would fill up my spreader again the SAME WAY...and from the rear to the front go over what I just applied....this will allow you to go much further....then repeat this again until I reach the door. This may take only two or three refills on your spreader. Then I fill up the spreader AGAIN and go ONE pass from rear to front. So now you have a single pass with the spreader and NO BREAKS IN IT...thus easier to sand and prep.

TRICKS:

NOW...if you have a deep ground out bonding seam area that you want to fill.. DO NOT be afraid to apply the VPA several times allowing it to set up to where you have to sand and grind it and re-apply. What you DO NOT want to happen is when you grind/sand the VPA...you have large pinholes/air pockets THROUGHOUT what you just applied. THAT IS NOT GOOD...and YES...I would make you grind it all out and do it again. WHY???? Like I would ask my employees who had air pockets/pinholes... "OK SUPERMAN....tell me if that 'right here' ( pointing at a spot) is there a large air bubble that is just below the surface of the VPA...so when the car goes outside and gets hot...I get a bubble under my paint".
OBVIOUSLY they did not have X-ray vision so it all comes out. and surprising ..when I am standing there watching them grind it...there are some seriously large air bubbles....the size of a 'B-B'.

When applying the VPA...at all costs try to make sure the edges that contact the panel and end...make sure that you really apply pressure to get them to go flat and NOT leave a harsh edge like if you applied a 'bad of butter' on the panel. When the outer edges of the VPA are tapered...when you go and sand...the transition of the body panel to the VPA is so slight...the VPA will feather quickly.

Sometimes taking the VPA to an edge is also helpful...even if you feel that you are going to sand it off. It is a smarter move....so when I am doing bonding seams...I take the VPA all the way to the top fender/quarter panel styling line...and make sure that I taper the bottom edge. I do not care if you have the center if this area high and having a 'peak' 'so-to-speak'...because when you go and block it...you will be able to shape down the peak and get it to creating the curve you are looking for.

Having a thick edge at the end of your VPA in a center of a panel is dangerous....because it will be really had to get that to come out....UNLESS you do it while it is in the 'setting up stage' and previously mentioned. So if I am filling in the the bottom of a door...and wanting to make sure the VPA stops in the center of teh door...I make sure that where I want it to stop I really apply pressure to taper the VPA so when I block it I can 'whisp' that edge in a few light passes with my sanding block. In some scenarios...I keep applying the VPA across the bottom of the door but applying a lot of pressure so I am only applying a very thin coat all the way to the other end of the door.. This makes it so I do not have to worry about a transition and possibly creating a problem in the center of the door when it was not there but it got put in there due to improper sanding techniques.

When using the VPA...you can allow it to being to react a little bit on your mixing board before applying it if you need it thicker. BUT...you better 'be on your GAME'...because it can harden in a snap. I do it..and I also MESS UP doing it....so it all depends on what I am doing. And IF I have a huge glob. I can use my scalpel and or razor blades and actually cut the VPA into a shape and allow it to harden fully and then sand it.

Fiberglass mat can be used with the VPA...but you will need to filet.shear or separate the sheet of mat so it is not as thick...then when a 'wet bed' of VPA has been applied...you can carefully add the fiberglass strands or thin mat sections ...work it in and then apply another thin layer of VPA and work it down into the VPA giving it some fibers to help it or...if trying to make area section will not fall off. BUT....you better know you mixing ration and not 'dilly-dally' around.

TEST...PRACTICE...and get familiar with it. I can not give away ALL my tricks...but this should help.

DUB
Old 01-13-2015, 12:16 AM
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20mercury
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Default Good info, Thanks!

Good info, Much Thanks!

I printed out and saved in the "DUB" collection!
Old 01-13-2015, 08:59 AM
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Thanks for the detailed instructions.
Old 01-13-2015, 05:53 PM
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THANKS...and make sure you always put the LID back on the can and seal it. Because...lack of keeping the mix stirred and the LID on the can will cause you to go use it when it gets low and find out that the stuff is SUPER thick due to drying out because the lid is off of it a lot of times and NOT keeping it mixed up. NOT writing that the VPA is bad...just that it may not flow as well as the first batch you mixed up worked out for you...but still has uses where a thicker mix may work and hold where you put it.

Kinda the same thing I do when I pull some out of the can and let it sit on the mixing board for an hour or two. It thickens up and still can be mixed and applied...but it is a bit thicker...which is what I need for that specific repair I am working on.

DUB
Old 01-16-2015, 09:15 PM
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DUB is it possible you could make some youtube videos doing some of these repairs in your shop? I think a lot of people here would gain a lot from watching you.
Old 01-17-2015, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 80-Vette
DUB is it possible you could make some youtube videos doing some of these repairs in your shop? I think a lot of people here would gain a lot from watching you.
Sorry about being long winded...but a good question deserves a good response.

I am sure that people would gain a lot from the videos.. But if I showed all my 'tricks' and how I do repairs....why would anyone bring their car to me when they could get someone to do what I am showing them. It would also conflict with the book I am working on. So a free video on YouTube is counter productive. Because I have thought of doing DVD's.....but that is on the back burner.

I hope I am not coming off as conceited...but I am sure that Kentucky Fried Chicken and Coco-Cola would not give out their recipes...even if asked.

Having PAID DEARLY...and I MEAN PAID DEARLY with my time and money over the years....and finding the materials and procedures that I know work...and I know what has failed....and knowing that I am rather opinionated when it comes to some 'things'...it is only because I have tired numerous ways and they failed and the 'way' being discussed is one that failed and I do not want the person to experience what I have experienced. In my 'book' if a process fails...it must be changed. I do not have the time to do 'things' over and over again. I have already been down that 'road'.

And I feel I give quite a lot to help people out. Even when I get 'blasted' for some of my comments. ALL I am trying to do is HELP. And provide a different perspective.

Think about it like this and this is CONSERVATIVE. Being in business for 30 years....and if all I did was work on ONE Corvette a month....that is 360 Corvettes that my hands have touched. So 360 tries to find the procedure...and see if it lasts and does not fail.

DUB
Old 01-18-2015, 12:22 AM
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RBrid
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Originally Posted by DUB
... the book I am working on. ...
Holy macaroni! Seriously? Can you tell us when it's coming out?
Old 01-18-2015, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RBrid
Holy macaroni! Seriously? Can you tell us when it's coming out?
I am still in the process of trying to figure out the layout and making sure that it can be read by everyone and NOT get too 'over the top'.

I have no clue when it will be done. I work 7 days a week...go home and honestly 'decompress' by helping out here on the Forum....then relax and do it all over again. SO when I have the time and my 'head' is into it...I work on it in bits and pieces. And for the past several months I have been involved in some intense work that is eating up my brain daily.

DUB
Old 01-18-2015, 09:54 PM
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A book and videos... That would be like a childhood Christmas dream come true! DUB I have heard that popcorn is amazing brain food.
Old 01-19-2015, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Dt86
A book and videos... That would be like a childhood Christmas dream come true! DUB I have heard that popcorn is amazing brain food.
YEP...it sure is...and it is what is getting me through ' C's ' car currently.

DUB
Old 03-23-2015, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DUB
I work 7 days a week...go home and honestly 'decompress' by helping out here on the Forum....then relax and do it all over again. DUB
Very interesting. My husband is an automotive technician and when he comes home the last thing he wants to do is work on a car or discuss working on cars. Most professionals I know have said the same thing. I greatly appreciate the effort you put into helping out us DIYers.

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Old 03-23-2015, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Priya
Very interesting. My husband is an automotive technician and when he comes home the last thing he wants to do is work on a car or discuss working on cars. Most professionals I know have said the same thing. I greatly appreciate the effort you put into helping out us DIYers.
Thanks...and it is somewhat easy when I offer advice or tips....because I can log off and go do something else if I am not in the mood.

DUB
Old 05-26-2016, 08:04 AM
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Good Morning, All.
And to you, especially, Master "DUB".
Not new to working on cars (or most M.V.s)
But going to be Teaching myself (with your help) how to "DO" my Baby.
Questions, Learning Curves, and the rest.
She's a 99 Nassau Blue Coupe with a LOT of miles on her.
But she's MINE.
Nose is pitted to hell from a LOT of driving, and I want to fix that.
Other 'impurities' around the body, some pre-date me, (a couple I created... ARGH!)
I'm Retired, have plenty of time for this, and won't even TRY until I've experimented on alternate parts that exist solely for this purpose.
I've copied and pasted your "LONG" post into a local document, and am building a library, if you will, of as many 'gotchas' and guidelines as I can.
I'll try to be as good a student as possible.
Old 05-26-2016, 08:05 AM
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Default New Student for you, DUB

Good Morning, All.
And to you, especially, Master "DUB".
Not new to working on cars (or most M.V.s)
But going to be Teaching myself (with your help) how to "DO" my Baby.
Questions, Learning Curves, and the rest.
She's a 99 Nassau Blue Coupe with a LOT of miles on her.
But she's MINE.
Nose is pitted to hell from a LOT of driving, and I want to fix that.
Other 'impurities' around the body, some pre-date me, (a couple I created... ARGH!)
I'm Retired, have plenty of time for this, and won't even TRY until I've experimented on alternate parts that exist solely for this purpose.
I've copied and pasted your "LONG" post into a local document, and am building a library, if you will, of as many 'gotchas' and guidelines as I can.
I'll try to be as good a student as possible.

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