Duffeball

I posted this in general earlier. Didnt realize there was a paint and body section. Forgive me if you feel it's redundant.

I bought a 68' 5 years ago. I've been working on it little by little to get it ready for paint. I knew it was a car that got hit on the passenger side. It was repaired but the work was shoddy.

The front crossmember was shimmed by an inch, the middle horseshoe bracket that holds the bumper had the welded nuts cut off and slotted so it could be pushed way further forward than intended.

I had it in to a frame guy and he said the frame did get hit and he got it straightened out.

Right now I've got the front nose bolted to the radiator support. it can be lifted off the car as it's not bonded to the firewall area currently.

I bought a new reproduction front crossmember and got my hands on 2 good original center horseshoe bracket. I mount everything up and the bumper can get no where close to the body line for the bumper. The bumper sits an inch or so below.

It's still possible the frame could be a little wonkey. but is there any other adjustments on the car. is it possible the body is actually sitting too high somehow? I did notice on the drivers side there is a finger think gap in the front where the inner fender meets the fender. On the passenger side it's butted up to the fender.

Any hints on a direction to start? I put stuff on the car realize it doesn't fit, get sad, and take it of. Try something else and start over. Viscous cycle.

Duffeball

Here's the car. I've got a grip of pictures of frame and what not. But I'll just start with a general front side view. Be aware, I've got smaller rollers on the car because I was hoping to get paint going.

After taking these pictures and comparing to other cars, it seems pretty clear That part of the problem is just the front header area. I can see the headlight areas and what not are kicked up towards the center Definitely more so than intended.



This car like I said was hit a long time ago and had some repairs done on the passenger side. The front end had not had a radiator support and the nose was just held by a metal piece that was bent to sit against the cross member and the header bar. Do you suppose this could cause the peak if the fenders on each side essentially sag down and all the pressure centered on that one spot?

The lower valance was goobered as well. I thought this might contribute to the peak in the nose if the fenders were pulled too tight in the valance area creating the point. I bought a new valance and it will be replaced.



I put the bumper up at the lowest point of the horseshoe support.



If i put it to the highest point on the support and press down on the middle forcing it under the bumper I get this.











As you can see, it is right on the bumper and is not conducive to assembly especially if it was painted.

The car currently has a radiator support to which the inner fenders are bolted to. I just wanted to shoot these your way to give you an idea of what I'm seeing. I took a ton more pictures of the body/frame areas. If there's something you need to see to help diagnose let me know.

Tell me it's not all bad and can be fixed!

DUB

First off...YES...it can be repaired.

NOW...I get really NERVOUS when 'frame guys' say they got it fixed.

Was the frame pulled/'repaired' with the body on or off???

I would HOPE that your frame guy used the measurements for the frame and measured it out before giving it back to you. Do you know if he actually measured it out???? Not meaning to seem like I doubt his ability....but I have encountered numerous Corvettes that were pulled and NOT RIGHT....so hopefully you do not take offense in me beings bit skeptical.

Also...did he measure the lower ball joints and or the wheel base????

Did he tell you what he found was bad/bent and describe it to you....and if so...what did he say to you about the frame damage.

When you bolt up the front bumper to the 'horseshoe' bracket....can you get the bumper to contact the horseshoe bracket and pull tight against it ???

Depending what was wrong with the frame.....the end of the frame where the frame extensions bolt to the frame...can be 'up' or 'in' or even 'down'. SO...when you bolt the front crossmember to the frame extension brackets ( that are already bolted to the frame)...it can make trying to get the front bumper to fit correctly a lot of FUN.

Getting the front crossmember and extension set correctly at the correct angle is important in order for the front bumper to bolt to it correctly in the center. SO...if the horseshoe bracket is pulled as far forward as possible and the bumper will not be able to bolt to it correctly.....THIS is where I begin to wonder if the frame is correct or not. Three is only so much room on the four bolts for the frame extension brackets that will allow you to pull them forward also....so if everything is forward...and the index holes in the door sills are aligned and CORRECT...that is telling me that the frame is not pulled back out far enough.

PM me so I can get you my shop phone number. I do not have a problem in typing...but hopefully all the typing I just completed was not waste of my time because even though I see you have the bumper on...I do not know if it is tight against the 'horseshoe' bracket.

DUB

Duffeball

I take no offense with your skepticism. The guy I used has done work for a bunch of corvette guys in the area.

The frame was pulled with the body on the car. That said, I had the engine, transmission, and bumper brackets all off the car. That might be a red flag. He did use the standard measurements for the frame. He says all the measuring points were in good shape after the adjustments. I don't know if he measured the ball joints or the wheel base.

He did indicate what was bad. It was the kick up area on the passenger side a little after the firewall going forward. He said he needed to go in through the front, where the passenger pumper support goes through and pull from there. It cracked the Inner fender and some of the body during the process. He said he said it was a good thing I brought it in. He indicated that the car would have had alignment issues. He said the rest of the frame looked good. That said, if it's lightly off still, I'm comfortable taking the front clip off to give better access to get it right.

I was able to get the bumper bolted tight to the horseshoe. both in the situation where it showed at the lowest point on the horseshoe and the highest point.

That said, I don't know how to tell if the index holes are aligned correctly or not. I will pm you to get your number.

DUB

Not meaning to be picky.....but if this guy has pulled many Corvettes.....especially the pre-1984 models. He should know to remove or loosen the body to frame bolts....so the body does not get damaged. And YES...some guys who pull frames feel that leaving it attached pulls back any issues with the birdcage....but it also depends on how bad the measurements are off. Enough of that.

If both of your door sills are off...there is a hole in the top of your door sill area towards the hinge area on the drivers side....and it usually has an orange plug in it. Remove it and look down and the hole in the rocker channel should line up with the hole in the frame. NOW...the REAR hole on the passenger side is where the other indexing hole is and it should line up. SO...even though you may have four orange plugs...the two you are worried about are the front on the drivers side and the rear on the passenger side. Using these two holes makes it so you get the body SQUARE to the frame. THIS IS IMPORTANT! You want to make sure that when you look down...the holes all line up as perfectly as possible. AND...if everything else is perfect with the frame...all other parts should install as designed.

SO...even if the indexing holes are correct...if the frame is not at it correct length and straight as designed....it can begin to throw so many other components off a lot when you start to get further away from the center 'box' of the frame. And the 'box' of the frame....so-to-speak....is the 'square' that you can image if your were to run a string from each of the 4 holes that the orange plugs were installed in your rocker channels.

DUB

Duffeball

Sorry I haven't been able to give you a call yet. it's been a hectic few weeks. I checked the reference holes. The passenger side looks super centered. the drivers side looks pretty good. I can see all the way through, but it seems like there might be a little overlap. but not terrible. I can fit a similarly sized bolt through it.

I got a little busy today and actually pulled the front end off the car. I measured the frame horns at the front where the extensions mount. The width at the front is 32.5 inches. At the back of the same horns it's 32.75. I didn't have my cross member when i gave it to my frame guy last time. I plan on taking the car back in to my frame guy and let him take a second stab at it with the front end off the car and all the pieces.

My question is, could a body guy get the front fiberglass area mended and put together right easier with it off the car? Do they prefer to do it that way?

DUB

You lost me...I need to know what is wrong and what is needing to be repaired when the front clip is off the car.

Good photos are needed and one that are not so close I can see the molecular structure of the fiberglass. I need to be able to KNOW where the damage is located....and not just a CLOSE-UP of a crack. WHERE the crack is located DOES often times dictate a repair procedure.

DUB