BURL

I have a C5 (57,XXX) with pretty good factory black paint. It also have on certain areas of the body slightly noticeable "orange peel". Paint has the standard light swirl marks with a few very light scratches. Have any of you "color sanded" a factory paint C5 with 2000 - 3000 grit paper prior to compounding and buffing? I am concerned about the thickness of the clear coat on the vette and I don't want to sand through to the base coat. I don't think GM did a great job on the paint on the C5's and I don't want to ruin the paint job. If it's as thick as most other GM cars I'll be ok - just don't know as I've never done a vette. In another thread I was told the C5 clear is very hard but also thin. I just don't know.

So, I have a couple of questions, IF I decide to "color sand" some of the "orange peel" areas using about 2000 - 3000 paper then a compound do you think I will be safe? (You can assume proper methods as I used to do custom paint many years ago so I am familiar with wet sanding and buffing techniques) Anyone here with enough C5 sanding, buffing, compounding experience to answer this?

Question number 2. What line of products would you with a lot of experience suggest? I want to go with one line of products for simplicities sake. I don't want to reinvent the detailing wheel or put together different products into some secret method just straight forward, one company and use their products. Also I'm only looking at paint correction chemicals not waxes I've looked at some products so far:

3M - Used their products years ago - expensive!
Menzema - Highly regarded - expensive!
The Chemical Guys - Seem to have a easy to understand progression of products from heavy to light cut then polish, ect. Seem reasonably priced
Maguire's - The new Ultimate compound and polish? Some good online reviews and relatively inexpensive

As I said, I am not really looking for wax suggestions. When I finish all my detailing my final step will be application of my old standby - Zaino system.

I really looking for some answers from experienced guys who have done a lot of paint correction/detailing and have seen/used several of the current brands of various products.

Final note, I will be using a 6" dual action buffer for chemical applications. I have a air power rotary buffer but I don't trust myself with it on the vette. Sorry for the long post and Thanks in advance for any advice!!

DUB

If you Corvette came into my shop and you asked for me to do what you plan on doing...I would tell you.... "HECK NO."

Sanding the car down slick and getting the orange peel out is do-able. BUFFING it .(in my opinion) is a BIG NO-NO.....because you are removing too much clear...and when you buff it...there goes some more...so when you put it out in the environment...I would be sacred as heck that the clear would begin to milk out and die ( which I have seen when this type of work has been done)( ESPECIALLY the top surfaces).....which is the BEGINNING OF THE END of the paint job because the clear coat does no have enough mil thickness to fight against the UV's of the sun. So applying all the fanciest concoctions on your paint will not stop the death of you paint job once it has begun to chalk out or milk out.


SO...I would apply clear coat to it....and any base where needed due to possibly going through on some of the sharp edges.

So....now what do you plan to do???

AS for you needing to know what to use for compounding and polishing..I can not help because I do not stay with one company.

I do not compound with a 6" dual action buffer....so I can not give any suggestions. I use a variable speed circular buffer. I do use my orbital buffer when I am applying my final glaze.

DUB

BURL

I have never seen clear coat successfully applied over cured clear coat. Years ago we used to be free to do this when we used lacquer because each successive coat melted the previous coat and would blend out all the scratches that were in the previous coat. Modern two part paints with the traditional clear coat will not melt the previous clear coat and depend entirely on "mechanical" means to adhere to the previous coat (physically holding on to the sanding scratches) . This means the previous coat must be sanded to create enough of a "Tooth" to allow the next coat to mechanically adhere. This sanding pattern or "tooth" can show thru the next layer since the old layer and new layer are not "melted" together as in the old school systems. Results - new clear coat that often peels off the old layer in a few years and when closely inspected show the scratched necessary for "mechanical" adhesion on the original clear coat to show through the new layer of clear coat.

Thank you for your reply and info but I will not be clear coating. With my experience in custom paint I am beginning to think I can sand, carefully using 2000 to 3000 paper, and then buff with less aggressive compounds. Some have replied to my thread saying they have successfully done this on a C5. I do not intend to sand the entire car, only some isolated places that have excessive "orange peel".

As for suppliers I'm hoping to fine a highly experienced people that can recommend one good line to use. I'm not a detailer and won't (hopefully) be doing this every year so I'm looking for the path of least resistance that will allow me to choose one supplier and use there products. Don't want to make this a complicated ordeal and skip around to multiple suppliers and products.

Thanks again.

DUB

You are correct in part of your reply. YES...there is chemical adhesion and mechanical adhesion...as you know. I remember the lacquer days...and I loved them...but 'things' change. Trying to compare the properties of 'old school' lacquer to todays paint just does not work...and just because they are different...does not mean that the new systems do not adhere...if prepped CORRECTLY. IF the panel is NOT correctly prepped...YES...the clear will pop right off in time and you will be looking at the incorrectly prepped panel under neath it.

BUT...I hate to write this...the number of cars that I prep the clearcoat and blend into it....show NO SIGNS of where I did what I did. The clear does NOT come off...peel up, de-laminate or any problem.

YOUR CAR...YOUR CALL...NO PROBLEM. I would just be careful.

DUB

BURL

Blending into a panels vs a complete clear coat is little different animal. Just my opinion - I've been out of it for a long time but I have observed the results of local body shops. Anyway, I appreciate your replies and input - I will put the info in my mental tool box for future reference!

DUB

Sorry for not clearing communicating myself. I am blending the color into the adjacent panel.,..and clearcoating the rest of the entire panel. So if I blended color into 3-8 inches of your door where it meets with the fender...the rest of the door would then be completely clearcoated. I would not and do not stop the clearcoat in the middle of a panel. I completely cover the entire panel in clear so there is not line that will show up where it stopped...especially if I can not find otu use a body design line ad a 'break point; to stop the clear in this body line where it will not be seen.

Just completed clearcoating the front clip of a 67 and no problems at all. You will not be able to tell what I did when I get done with it.

By no means am I knocking the shops around you....but high production/volume shops and shops that do high end work are two totally different creatures....which I am sure you are well aware of when you did the custom work. I see it in many of the shops around me also....they pump out the work...and what they allow to go out is something that would never leave my shop.

NOT trying to convince you to do anything you feel will not work. I am just letting others know who may read this that it can be done will no bad side effects....if performed correctly.

DUB

BURL

Dub, I am familiar with the full panel refinish technique where you used the adjacent panel or a body line to stop the refinish so it won't be obvious. We had a huge amount of this going on in my area three years ago due to a severe hail storm. I stopped in one body shop and saw then refinishing full panel that were barely scuffed with some grit sanding pad - not paper but a woven type pad. I examined the finish closely and in my opinion, there is no way the new coat of clear could successfully adhere to that surface for the long haul. I sure there have been some clear coat peeling on these cars. Jut has to be. This surface looked and felt like a surface sanded with 600 grit paper! I don't see how a new clear coat could properly bond to this surface. I didn't question them cause it wasn't my place to do so. Plus, if this was on a dark car I don't see how the sanding scratches on the original coat cold help but show up through the new clear coat??!!

DUB

WINNER----WINNER----CHICKEN DINNER!!!!!


THANK YOU for your reply. And you are CORRECT...if you saw a shop run a scuff pad over the panel and it was still shiny...YES...that paint/clear will have a delamination date attached to it....you can count on it....or IF it got a chip...and you blew air in the chip...the paint would go flying.

SO...which is why I wrote what I have in the past posts....IF the panels is meticulously prepped and completely DULL...when cleared...I would bet even you could not find a problem....because I know you have an eye for that type of stuff....just like myself..and TRUST ME....I am super picky...and if I can not see it.....it is not there.

Back to your car...do what you feel works best for you...as I wrote....you car ...your choice.

DUB

13611

I'm with DUB on this one. I've been using grey scuff pads with a scuff and clean paste... sometimes just the pad itself... for years on a panel blend. Never had clear come off. And as for scratches showing through, they just don't. Find some light scratches on one of your vehicles and dump a glass of water over them... they're gone. I can clear over 400 grit scratches and you won't see a thing. The clears these days are pretty amazing... if all the prep is done properly. Not trying to sound like a jerk here, just supporting what I know from experience.