I'm guessing brake fluid damage?
03-10-2016, 10:02 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
I'm guessing brake fluid damage?
I painted the hood jamb on my 66 this week and found two general spots that fish-eyed no matter what I did to avoid it. Both spots are near the master cylinder.
On the body of the car there is damage EXACTLY where the fish-eyes are that I THOUGHT was heat damage as it looks like it was hit with a propane torch and the paint is bubbled. Now I'm thinking this is the same issue as the jamb.
I'm done working on this now but in the future I plan on repainting the top of the nose. How do I 'bury' whatever this is the next time?
[I saw one thread where a fella re-fiber glassed the whole top of the front fender..oh God tell me I don't have to do that...]
On the body of the car there is damage EXACTLY where the fish-eyes are that I THOUGHT was heat damage as it looks like it was hit with a propane torch and the paint is bubbled. Now I'm thinking this is the same issue as the jamb.
I'm done working on this now but in the future I plan on repainting the top of the nose. How do I 'bury' whatever this is the next time?
[I saw one thread where a fella re-fiber glassed the whole top of the front fender..oh God tell me I don't have to do that...]
03-10-2016, 04:43 PM
#2
Drifting
Thread Starter
This is the existing damage...
03-10-2016, 05:28 PM
#3
Race Director
If you fiberglass has been contaminated...the ONLY way I know to STOP the problem is to REMOVE the problem and replace the fiberglass you grind out with new material. Shooting countless layers of a primer or 'whatever' will only come back due to whaterver you shoot is going on a surface that is contaminated. Common sense would dictate...get the bad material out and replace it.
Also proper prepping techniques and solvents need to be used to make sure the surface is wax and grease free prior to painting....and THAT also means doing the wiping procedure correctly. You would be amazed on how many people I see wipe a car done incorrectly and wonder why that have problems when they lay the first coat of sealer or paint down.
Not knowing what type of paint you sprayed....and if you primed it first..and so on and on....There are some painters tricks to stop an area from fish eyes. But it can be somewhat of a slight trade-off. Because I have encountered areas on other types of cars where fish eyes kept popping up and got them to stop. But it does depend A LOT on the type of paint your are shooting also.
DUB
Also proper prepping techniques and solvents need to be used to make sure the surface is wax and grease free prior to painting....and THAT also means doing the wiping procedure correctly. You would be amazed on how many people I see wipe a car done incorrectly and wonder why that have problems when they lay the first coat of sealer or paint down.
Not knowing what type of paint you sprayed....and if you primed it first..and so on and on....There are some painters tricks to stop an area from fish eyes. But it can be somewhat of a slight trade-off. Because I have encountered areas on other types of cars where fish eyes kept popping up and got them to stop. But it does depend A LOT on the type of paint your are shooting also.
DUB
Last edited by DUB; 03-10-2016 at 05:31 PM.
03-10-2016, 05:51 PM
#4
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks Dub, I used PPG base...no primer over the old paint with just a clean and scuff. Base went down perfect and blew up [fish eye] with PPG clear.
Trying to correct the fish-eye....
I Let it dry, wet sand ...same process except used U-Pol single stage clear..
Lifted all the last PPG clear..[because I broke it by sanding it]
Wiped it ALL off [reducer] back to what I started with..
Base went down nice, let it dry over night. U-Pol again , ate into the base and discolored it in spots....[mottled]
Dusted base again over UNSANDED [unbroken] clear, hoping the clear would act as a barrier coat. Dry over night. U-Pol clear and it stayed down, barrier coat idea worked.
Fish - eyed same spots every time I cleared it.
Left it alone this time, DONE. Not really acceptable but there isn't much I can do without getting carried away and it IS better that what I stated with before I did anything.
[I had to 'clearance' the hood jamb to get that new hood to fit we talked about a couple weeks ago. Hood fit is good and came out nice in primer]
Please remember I'm a ham and egger here....
When I paint the hood surround next fall, think polyester primer will bury it all?
If not, I'll grind 1/16 off and VPA it?
Trying to correct the fish-eye....
I Let it dry, wet sand ...same process except used U-Pol single stage clear..
Lifted all the last PPG clear..[because I broke it by sanding it]
Wiped it ALL off [reducer] back to what I started with..
Base went down nice, let it dry over night. U-Pol again , ate into the base and discolored it in spots....[mottled]
Dusted base again over UNSANDED [unbroken] clear, hoping the clear would act as a barrier coat. Dry over night. U-Pol clear and it stayed down, barrier coat idea worked.
Fish - eyed same spots every time I cleared it.
Left it alone this time, DONE. Not really acceptable but there isn't much I can do without getting carried away and it IS better that what I stated with before I did anything.
[I had to 'clearance' the hood jamb to get that new hood to fit we talked about a couple weeks ago. Hood fit is good and came out nice in primer]
Please remember I'm a ham and egger here....
When I paint the hood surround next fall, think polyester primer will bury it all?
If not, I'll grind 1/16 off and VPA it?
Last edited by karkrafter; 03-10-2016 at 05:53 PM.
03-10-2016, 06:53 PM
#5
Race Director
OK...thanks for the write up. I need to know what is done specifically or it just leaves may unanswered questions.
It may have helped.... but did you wipe the prepped surface WELL with wax and grease remover??? You did not write that.
Often times basecoat can go down and not fish eye and when you clear it...it goes nuts.
Using a single stage rattle can clear is part of the problem because IF you do not dust it on and NOT try to get it to shine and APPLY NUMEROUS coats...it will keep blowing up on you. When you get enough of the clear dusted over the bad area...then you slow down a little bit and begin getting it to shine just a little bit. The reason is you are trying to get a barrier of really dry clear that will hopefully not fish eye when you get the final coat to shine. AND...generally...rattle can clears can often times have decent penetrating properties and can do worse than using 2K clears....that you can dust the same when due to being able to adjust the paint gun.
Also..possibly getting and using a 'fish eye eliminator' in the 2K clear can help quite a bit. If this area is just really giving you a fit. Using this fish eye eliminator is my last resort.
You wrote:
When I paint the hood surround next fall, think polyester primer will bury it all?
If not, I'll grind 1/16 off and VPA it?
My reply was given in the first paragraph of post#3.
NOT DIRECTED AT YOU SPECIFICALLY:
Please keep in mind that when a project is being done by someone and problems occur...if steps are not taken on the professional level...it is hard for me to understand how professional results are wanting to be achieved but the correct steps are not taken. I have seen paint jobs that were done out in barn that turned out well and others that fail. I have seen paint jobs in down draft booths that FAILED and others that were perfect. Sometimes it is the luck of the draw...but more times than not...it is the steps taken prior to applying anything that matter the most. Because I have seen paint jobs and repairs that were fine all except for a few areas that failed badly.
DUB
It may have helped.... but did you wipe the prepped surface WELL with wax and grease remover??? You did not write that.
Often times basecoat can go down and not fish eye and when you clear it...it goes nuts.
Using a single stage rattle can clear is part of the problem because IF you do not dust it on and NOT try to get it to shine and APPLY NUMEROUS coats...it will keep blowing up on you. When you get enough of the clear dusted over the bad area...then you slow down a little bit and begin getting it to shine just a little bit. The reason is you are trying to get a barrier of really dry clear that will hopefully not fish eye when you get the final coat to shine. AND...generally...rattle can clears can often times have decent penetrating properties and can do worse than using 2K clears....that you can dust the same when due to being able to adjust the paint gun.
Also..possibly getting and using a 'fish eye eliminator' in the 2K clear can help quite a bit. If this area is just really giving you a fit. Using this fish eye eliminator is my last resort.
You wrote:
When I paint the hood surround next fall, think polyester primer will bury it all?
If not, I'll grind 1/16 off and VPA it?
My reply was given in the first paragraph of post#3.
NOT DIRECTED AT YOU SPECIFICALLY:
Please keep in mind that when a project is being done by someone and problems occur...if steps are not taken on the professional level...it is hard for me to understand how professional results are wanting to be achieved but the correct steps are not taken. I have seen paint jobs that were done out in barn that turned out well and others that fail. I have seen paint jobs in down draft booths that FAILED and others that were perfect. Sometimes it is the luck of the draw...but more times than not...it is the steps taken prior to applying anything that matter the most. Because I have seen paint jobs and repairs that were fine all except for a few areas that failed badly.
DUB
03-10-2016, 08:12 PM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
I have certainly dealt with more than the average share of fish eyes over the last 30 years as my shop does more car detailing [silicone] than autobody work.
Because of the location of the problem [near m/c] I am more trying to figure out if this is a corvette/fiberglass/contamination issue and how to deal with it.
If I get into this next fall..I will grind and VPA. Most likely I'll send the job to a pro as there is a big difference between ME blowing in a hood jamb and ME painting the nose on a $50,000 car.
Because of the location of the problem [near m/c] I am more trying to figure out if this is a corvette/fiberglass/contamination issue and how to deal with it.
If I get into this next fall..I will grind and VPA. Most likely I'll send the job to a pro as there is a big difference between ME blowing in a hood jamb and ME painting the nose on a $50,000 car.
03-11-2016, 05:41 PM
#7
Race Director
I have certainly dealt with more than the average share of fish eyes over the last 30 years as my shop does more car detailing [silicone] than autobody work.
Because of the location of the problem [near m/c] I am more trying to figure out if this is a corvette/fiberglass/contamination issue and how to deal with it.
If I get into this next fall..I will grind and VPA. Most likely I'll send the job to a pro as there is a big difference between ME blowing in a hood jamb and ME painting the nose on a $50,000 car.
Because of the location of the problem [near m/c] I am more trying to figure out if this is a corvette/fiberglass/contamination issue and how to deal with it.
If I get into this next fall..I will grind and VPA. Most likely I'll send the job to a pro as there is a big difference between ME blowing in a hood jamb and ME painting the nose on a $50,000 car.
If you grind the area really good...thus removing a lot of fiberglass. And the remaining fiberglass is really weak and thin and can be pressed and see movement in it. I would NOT use VPA alone. I would laminate in fiberglass and resin. Get it to level....grind that down a little bit and then skim coat it with the VPA.
Obviously its your car...do as you see fit.
AS for you painting it or sending it out....I am sure you can do it quite well. But that again is your choice.
DUB
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karkrafter (03-23-2016)
05-02-2016, 12:56 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
I painted the hood jamb on my 66 this week and found two general spots that fish-eyed no matter what I did to avoid it. Both spots are near the master cylinder.
On the body of the car there is damage EXACTLY where the fish-eyes are that I THOUGHT was heat damage as it looks like it was hit with a propane torch and the paint is bubbled. Now I'm thinking this is the same issue as the jamb.
I'm done working on this now but in the future I plan on repainting the top of the nose. How do I 'bury' whatever this is the next time?
[I saw one thread where a fella re-fiber glassed the whole top of the front fender..oh God tell me I don't have to do that...]
On the body of the car there is damage EXACTLY where the fish-eyes are that I THOUGHT was heat damage as it looks like it was hit with a propane torch and the paint is bubbled. Now I'm thinking this is the same issue as the jamb.
I'm done working on this now but in the future I plan on repainting the top of the nose. How do I 'bury' whatever this is the next time?
[I saw one thread where a fella re-fiber glassed the whole top of the front fender..oh God tell me I don't have to do that...]
Who the hell did that?
05-02-2016, 05:11 PM
#9
Race Director
Well someone did. I know others have coated the panel with a resin and blocked it also.
I can not remember the person specifically....and procedures that other people do..,,I generally forget about due to having too much of my own 'drama' at the shop to deal with and remember.
DUB
I can not remember the person specifically....and procedures that other people do..,,I generally forget about due to having too much of my own 'drama' at the shop to deal with and remember.
DUB
05-02-2016, 05:26 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
Well someone did. I know others have coated the panel with a resin and blocked it also.
I can not remember the person specifically....and procedures that other people do..,,I generally forget about due to having too much of my own 'drama' at the shop to deal with and remember.
DUB
I can not remember the person specifically....and procedures that other people do..,,I generally forget about due to having too much of my own 'drama' at the shop to deal with and remember.
DUB
Regards, Fred
05-02-2016, 05:55 PM
#11
Race Director
All is good..and your 'dry humor' is just fine also.
I just wanted to reply letting people know that other people have done it. I personally would not coat a panel in only resin...unless I vacuum bagged it. I have never had a reason to do so as of yet.
DUB
05-02-2016, 05:59 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Resin AND MATTE. Never resin alone.
05-02-2016, 06:13 PM
#13
Race Director
with that...but I have also been told by a resin manufacturing company that their resin can be applied all by itself. I use their resin in my laminated repairs...but to date...I have never coated a panel in resin alone.
