LTwannaB

This is a 1970 coupe. After removing 10 layers of paint, gobs of filler and crappy fiberglass patches, this is what I have to work with.




Corner was patched with fiberglass cloth and lots of filler was used to shape.



Lower half was replaced at some point, mid wheel well forward.



Both sides of surround are cracked.

I have located a front clip a few hours away. Seller bought for his 1976, but said it wouldn't fit. Wants $500.



Broken under green tape.



Seller not sure of origin or year.



No front reinforcement bar.



No sign of inner wheel skirt attachment.

Does this look like the correct clip for a 1970?
I don't see any bonding evidence, so is this a new unused part?

I really don't want to replace the entire front clip, was considering ACI pieces for front corners, until I found this piece.

Any thoughts or advice?

Thanks,
Dan

DUB

That used clip is correct for your car. I do not feel it was ever bonded on the car...but I see some area that just do not seem right.

A couple of concerns.

This front clip has been stored outside...upside down...because you can see where water had collected and left stain rings in the upper fenders/top hood surround area.

I am a bit confused because I can see witness marks left behind when someone tried to apply something to the back edge...of the very front edge of the clip. You can see staining or a witness marks of a previous adhesive in the photos of it being turned upside down.

I am concerned WHY there is gray primer on it. If it is a new front clip...it should all be gelcoated and nothing on the exterior.

The break where there is green tape...well that is what that is. and knowing that this is a hand laid part...removing your metal supports and all related retainers and transferring them to this clip is do-able and will take some time.

Keep in mind I do body work on Corvettes so I know what I would expect in a used part or an old part....regardless of its cost.....because if a part is less expensive DOES NOT make it always a good choice...because if I have to start putting extra repair time into a part that I would not have to do in a new part...then the costs of that used part can begin to climb and easily become not such a good deal after all.

I know it is your time....but there is a point where it DOES become a diminishing return. And ONLY you can determine where the cut off point is. I can 'say' that the front clip you have now can be repaired....BUT...it can fall into that diminishing return scenario I just mentioned....and that also depends on how much more damage it may have that you did not post photos of.

I will also write this.... and you can take it or leave it.. BUT there is no way in HECK that I would attempt to install the front clip when the body is not ON the frame and properly shimmed and tightened down. IF you choose to do so I wish you the VERY BEST. I ahve been doing this for over 30 years and I would not even consider it. There are variables at play that can make me REGRET that I did it that way.

If you are going to want to use patch panels....just be aware that they can sometimes NOT be the best choice...and that DEPENDS on what you expect form the job when completed. I have to warranty my repair work...and I KNOW that just becasue a panel is offered to repair an area...that does NOT mean that that panel is the way to go. Because, cheaper, faster and easier is not always the BEST method. Because the very end of the lamination where seam is now in an area where GM did not originally have one AND will more than likely be on teh edge of a panel....getting that edge to be RIGHT and NOT allow a crack to begin...is what matters to me the most. Because on the edges of panels that I have to repair is where I depend a lot of time so there is not a huge blob of mat and resin that rivals the thickness of a hockey puck. Which leads this right back to ...what YOU want to see when it is completed.

And I only write this because....if you spend numerous hours doing body work and NOT take it to the highest level of repair...and you get the car painted and it is looking slick and shiny...and a few days, weeks, or months later your poor body work starts to surface again. You will kick yourself in the backside and REGRET every poor repair decision you made. UNLESS you want a car that falls apart or looks crappy months later. Because...the BEST PAINT can not hide BAD BODYWORK!!!!

IF you want to do this then you will get it done. And I am in NO WAY trying to kill your motivation. I am only passing along a bit of my reality on what I have seen and dealt with and what I just wrote is literally a 'drop in the bucket'.

DUB

LTwannaB

Dub,

I have placed pictures of the body in a PhotoBucket album:

http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/mi...?sort=3&page=1

There is also a sub-album of paint/filler removal pics.

There are still some areas of the body to strip, and final lacquer thinner wipe downs.

I was originally planning to patch the fiberglass, but all the damaged areas and missing pieces started me thinking it might be best to use repair panels. I understand that sometimes the repair panels don't fit well, it wouldn't make sense to pay for a panel that is more work to install than just using fiberglass and resin to repair the existing body. Another concern is that I won't be able to establish the correct body lines in areas where the original fiberglass is missing. I don't want to use thick layers of filler to re-create the missing areas (like the last guy did), I prefer it to be as close as possible with fiberglass. This will be a driver, not a show car, but I still want to take the time to make it right.

The front clip I found online seemed to good to be true. I also wondered about the primer and where it has been stored. Paint bubbles is what drove me to strip off the paint in the first place, I certainly don't want to jeopardize all my hard work by using a part with possible issues that causes problems down the road with the new paint.

I understand what you mean by "diminishing returns", but because I have no experience with this, I don't see how I can determine what the cutoff point is? Should I just forge ahead with mat and resin and attempt to re-create missing areas, knowing that I can always buy a repair panel if I fail? The time spent will certainly not be a waste, as I will be acquiring/practicing a new skill that will be required on the seams and other areas.

The body was pulled so I could fix the rusted areas on the frame and rebuild it right. Rest assured the body will be back on the frame before I start any fiberglass repairs.

I appreciate your honesty and taking the time to reply.

Dan

DUB

If you need more direct help...just PM me and I will give you my shop phone number and this will allow you to post photos so I can still see what you have going on and then we can talk about what to possibly do. The reason I like talking instead of me typing for hours... is often times a 30 minute phone call ( if that) will cover a lot more information.

I will look at your photobucket photos.

DUB

LTwannaB

Dub,

This thread was my 'stop and regroup'.

I have been steadily stripping paint, discovering the damage, and making plans to repair the damaged areas with resin and mat.
The front clip for sale caught my eye, and suddenly I wasn't sure which direction to take.
Thanks for helping me get back on track.

I would like to have a go at the repairs myself, as I enjoy a good challenge and the satisfaction of knowing I did it.

I will finish stripping the body, doors and hood down to bare fiberglass. Assess all the damage, post some pics and then PM you and call for some advice. Thank you for the offer.

Dan

DUB

Whenever you are ready to get into it with both feet...post your issues.

DUB

LTwannaB

I'm ready now... only a YEAR later!

There is lots to do, so here goes.

This pic shows the situation for just the right rear quarter:



I need to order supplies, but first I need to know if West Systems epoxy is suitable for all the bodywork being as there is newer SMC replacement panels bonded to the original body?

Also, is there a source for fiberglass mat without the styrene binder that is suitable for epoxy resin? Or which mat should I use?

Does anyone have a list of the basic tools/supplies needed for fiberglass repairs? I want to get everything on-hand before I start mixing epoxy.

Thanks,
Dan

plasticracer

http://epoxyworks.com/index.php/chop...mat-and-epoxy/

good article here

DUB

That repair in your rear quarter would necessarily cause you to have to go out and buy the rollers to aid you in lamination. You can get them if you want to.....BUT...if you know you are going to be doing a lot of laminating...it might be wort the money.



Keep in mind that if you are not going super crazy and worrying about what judges may see or say. On the inside of any repair you can get to when you are doing the lamination...much like the rear quarter panel damage. Applying a layer of fiberglass woven cloth for teh final layer will greatly strengthen it due to its liner properties.

As for tools..I think it would be easier if you let us know what you have currently for tools that can grind and so on.

DUB

LTwannaB

plasticracer - good article and web site, I surfed it for awhile before realizing it was West Systems site...doh!

DUB - the hole shown in post #1 is going to be a lamination-palooza! I will get some rollers ordered!

Tools I have:
DA sander
Right angle die grinder with the Roloc discs
No fiberglass tools.

My shopping list:
Mixing cups
Stir sticks
Rollers
Disposable gloves
West System 105 epoxy - quart or gallon to start with?
West Systems 206 SLOW hardener
West Systems 300 mini pumps
Fiberglass mat 1.5 oz - not sure what to order, styrene binder? stitched binder? Manufacturer? How much?

During my research I was wondering if I should use woven cloth to back the large areas - thanks for the suggestion. Is 1 layer sufficient, or should I do 2 with the second one at a 45 degree angle for maximum strength? 4, 6 or 10 oz. woven fabric?

The original body fiberglass thickness is about 1/8", it that what I'm shooting for?

Thanks,
Dan

porchdog

in the days before replacement parts except oem which ins would not pay for we had to get inventive. if i were going to fix that hole i would make a backup panel . lay out some wax paper and make a piece larger than the hole by rolling resin into a piece of light woven. glass it in behind the hole. then you can build up the hole with mat .
rollers are worth every dime ! i get my mixing cups from Taps plastics .

DUB

Yes ...that is a good one but it can and go rather easy. I would apply masking tape on the outside and laminate it from the under side...and may start with just ONE layer (possibly two) to give me a solid foundation for the other layers I will be applying the next day.

If oyu ahve not done so...check this out and see if any if what I am doing will help you out and make sense.

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...-drag-car.html


This is a good start and possibly some die grinder tools for routing...but that will be determined at a later date and no need to go buy any at this time.

Sounds good.

I have never found the need for the styrene binder...I ahve never had a
laminated area come back and haunt me due to staining or anything like that.....but do as you wish

I do not know what you mean by 'stitched binder'???

In some laminations I will apply a layer of the mat...then a layer of the woven cloth and then a final layer of the mat.

Cross-crossing the pattern of the woven cloth could provide some addition strength...but in most repairs over the 30 years of doing this..I have rarely found a need to do it. Usually mixing the mat and cloth provides a really strong repair.

YES...but you can go more if oyu want to BUT oyu do not want to apply more than three layers of ounce and a half mat due to the heat being built up in the repair internally can get quite hot.

I like my laminations to take 24 hours to cure fully and then I will use my infra red heater once they have cured and I am done. Knowing that you are using the WEST SYSTEMS resin...mix small batches instead of a huge batch because the resin mix in your bucket can begin to cure much FASTER than what you have applied due to the internal heat the resin has in it when it is in the bucket. NOW THIS applies if you are jumping around on the car and doing numerous lamentations.

IF you are concentration on one huge area and you KNOW you will be applying a lot of resin ...then you can mix a rather large quantity.

REMEMBER the key here ( in my opinion) is to get your saturation of the mat/cloth to the point where it is saturated but not sopping wet. The rollers you get will greatly aid you in getting it right. Because if and when you roll, out the repair and the fiberglas mat/cloth goes back to looking white again...you pressed out too much resin and more resin will need to be applied.

DUB

LTwannaB

Thanks for the clarifications and instructions!
Orders have been placed for supplies. Stuff should start showing up Monday.

In the meantime, I will roll the body outside and do some more grinding on the hole in the right rear to remove additional old repair material and get down to original fiberglass.

I know I need to put the body back on the frame to repair the extensive front end damage, but can I repair the hole in the right rear and redo all the seams around the tail lights while the body is on the stand? It is really convenient to sit on a stool under there and work from the backside.

Thanks,
Dan

DUB

Dan,

Yes...due to body will not move in the area of the damage at the rear quarter...you can fix it when it is off the frame.

You can also do the seams for the rear quarters and taillight panel also.

DUB

LTwannaB

The title of this thread no longer represents the direction this project is going, so I started a new thread to address body repairs:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1595412967

Dan