Advice needed on modifying 65 front clip
09-20-2016, 01:28 PM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Advice needed on modifying 65 front clip
My 65 is a very modified car and I have been doing the glass work myself. Its been quite the learning experience but a lot of fun. My latest step is to start making my inner fenders and rad shroud. I started by removing the drip edge on the hood surround. There is now just a short lip coming down from the fenders. I should add that this is a one piece front end ( and I would never use one again!). I would like to lengthen this edge and have it go around the entire hood opening. This is what I will attach the inner fenders and rad shroud to. I don't want to create any issues that will show up later. Should I....
1. Not grind into the glass underneath ( sand it of course though) and layer the new glass using wider pieces towards the wheel openings. Will this extra thickness create an issue?
2. Use the same method but taper grind the existing glass so that the modification does not add thickness?
Both these methods wont work at the front of the hood opening though because the steel reinforcement bar is in the way. So could I...
3. Grind the gelcoat back 4 or 5 inches to bare glass and add my lip from the top side? This would add thickness all around the hood opening and there would be a gelcoat to glass transition. Would this cause problems down the road?
I hope Ive been able to word this clearly! Any advice would be very appreciated. Thanks!
1. Not grind into the glass underneath ( sand it of course though) and layer the new glass using wider pieces towards the wheel openings. Will this extra thickness create an issue?
2. Use the same method but taper grind the existing glass so that the modification does not add thickness?
Both these methods wont work at the front of the hood opening though because the steel reinforcement bar is in the way. So could I...
3. Grind the gelcoat back 4 or 5 inches to bare glass and add my lip from the top side? This would add thickness all around the hood opening and there would be a gelcoat to glass transition. Would this cause problems down the road?
I hope Ive been able to word this clearly! Any advice would be very appreciated. Thanks!
09-20-2016, 06:06 PM
#2
Race Director
I am trying to grasp what you wrote.
Are you planning on using the hood hinges in the same manner???
Reason being...have an edge drop down from the hood surround at the front hood gap area can be a bit FUN and also cause for a problem in the hood working correctly...if you plan on hinging it as the way GM did it...and still have a gap that looks worth a crap.
If I am following your thoughts on this..I would grind the gelcoat on the top surface and then build my angle from the top side and go from there.
This is your project..and unless you are doing this for a personalized visual effect. This drop down angle will strengthen the panel...but it is already strong as heck due to the metal support bonded to the underside of the top hood surround in that area.
Making that shape 90 degree angle is going to be FUN.....so filet ( separate or shear) your mat so it bends easier. If that does not make sense...think of it like a 1/2" sheet of plywood that is needing to bend to make a curve. It does not bend easily due to its thickness....BUT.....taking a 1/4" sheet of plywood DOES bend easier... and you can apply that sheet of 1/4" plywood and get it to bend....and then just add another sheet on top of it to get to your 1/2'' requirement....so-to-speak.
SO...if you are using once and a half mat...you can separate it so you have two pieces the same size with HALF of the fibers in them ...so they bend easier and not fight you. Do not cut the mat with scissors...I would tear the mat by hand so I have frayed edges.
But do as you see works best for you.
DUB
Are you planning on using the hood hinges in the same manner???
Reason being...have an edge drop down from the hood surround at the front hood gap area can be a bit FUN and also cause for a problem in the hood working correctly...if you plan on hinging it as the way GM did it...and still have a gap that looks worth a crap.
If I am following your thoughts on this..I would grind the gelcoat on the top surface and then build my angle from the top side and go from there.
This is your project..and unless you are doing this for a personalized visual effect. This drop down angle will strengthen the panel...but it is already strong as heck due to the metal support bonded to the underside of the top hood surround in that area.
Making that shape 90 degree angle is going to be FUN.....so filet ( separate or shear) your mat so it bends easier. If that does not make sense...think of it like a 1/2" sheet of plywood that is needing to bend to make a curve. It does not bend easily due to its thickness....BUT.....taking a 1/4" sheet of plywood DOES bend easier... and you can apply that sheet of 1/4" plywood and get it to bend....and then just add another sheet on top of it to get to your 1/2'' requirement....so-to-speak.
SO...if you are using once and a half mat...you can separate it so you have two pieces the same size with HALF of the fibers in them ...so they bend easier and not fight you. Do not cut the mat with scissors...I would tear the mat by hand so I have frayed edges.
But do as you see works best for you.
DUB
09-21-2016, 12:24 PM
#3
Pro
Thread Starter
Thanks for the advice!
Good point about the hinges. I have already made a set of hinges that open the hood while bringing the front hood edge in and up. It will no longer tuck down in front of the radiator.
Just to clarify a few of your points. If I work from the top side and grind the existing gelcoat away.
You don't think that where the existing gel coat and the new glass meet will create any issues with mapping through later on?
You are correct that the new glass doesn't add any more rigidity then the metal support provides. Do you think that I can also use this method up the sides of the hood opening with out any issues from making the area thicker?
I was thinking of using 5 layers of 1.5 ounce mat to give a lip thickness of about 1/8. Seem right?
And yes, Ive learned the hard way that glass sure doesn't like tight bends!
Good point about the hinges. I have already made a set of hinges that open the hood while bringing the front hood edge in and up. It will no longer tuck down in front of the radiator.
Just to clarify a few of your points. If I work from the top side and grind the existing gelcoat away.
You don't think that where the existing gel coat and the new glass meet will create any issues with mapping through later on?
You are correct that the new glass doesn't add any more rigidity then the metal support provides. Do you think that I can also use this method up the sides of the hood opening with out any issues from making the area thicker?
I was thinking of using 5 layers of 1.5 ounce mat to give a lip thickness of about 1/8. Seem right?
And yes, Ive learned the hard way that glass sure doesn't like tight bends!
09-21-2016, 06:08 PM
#4
Race Director
You don't think that where the existing gel coat and the new glass meet will create any issues with mapping through later on?
Like I used to tell the guys I trained in the past. You are going to have to do bodywork..so do not try to keep the repair to a minimum in this SPECIFIC scenario. Removing enough gelcoat so when you laminate in new material....when you are done and have you lamination covered in a layer of VPA and it blocked and ready for something to be applied.. I ...would apply gelcoat again...thus...no problems.
You are correct that the new glass doesn't add any more rigidity then the metal support provides. Do you think that I can also use this method up the sides of the hood opening with out any issues from making the area thicker?
You lost me on this one....I do not understand what you are wanting to do. From what I gather ...if I am correct. You cut off the rain gutter edge on both sides where the inner skirts go. By doing that...a lot of strength and rigidity was taken out of the front clip...if I understood what you did. Good photos are needed in this thread.
I was thinking of using 5 layers of 1.5 ounce mat to give a lip thickness of about 1/8. Seem right?
That should do it...but do not guess...do a test and see. Without 'preaching' to you...I have seen many people get 1/4" with two layers...due to the excessive amount of resin and they did not use the correct tools to get the air out and work out all unneeded resin.
And...I would make sure my mix was mixed so my resin would cure in 24 hours and not in 3 hours. Keep in mind if you do 5 layers all in one laminating session...the heat that is going to build up during the chemical process can cause it to cure a lot quicker. So...if you are using laminating resin..I would stop at 3 layers..and then come in the next day and finish it out.....but ...do as you wish.
And yes, Ive learned the hard way that glass sure doesn't like tight bends!
DUB
09-26-2016, 11:05 AM
#5
Pro
Thread Starter
I was hoping to get over this weekend and get some pictures for you ( the car isn't at home). But things got in the way.....
I will get some but for now I will try to explain better. I did cut the horizontal drip rail off but left the small portion that was vertical and extends down into the engine bay. I would like to make this longer ( about 2 or 3 inches) and then fold it back towards the wheel wells for about 3/4 inch. This is where the new inner fenders will bolt. I want to do this all around, from the firewall to the front, across and back to the firewall.
You feel I can grind the gelcoat away and add in the glass from the top of the hood surround at the front edge where the steel brace goes. But, can I also use this method along the sides towards the firewall? Will the extra glass create a problem? I wasn't sure if where the thicker modification meets the original glass thickness along the fender tops might be a problem.
Pictures will be coming!
Thanks again for the help.
Kris
I will get some but for now I will try to explain better. I did cut the horizontal drip rail off but left the small portion that was vertical and extends down into the engine bay. I would like to make this longer ( about 2 or 3 inches) and then fold it back towards the wheel wells for about 3/4 inch. This is where the new inner fenders will bolt. I want to do this all around, from the firewall to the front, across and back to the firewall.
You feel I can grind the gelcoat away and add in the glass from the top of the hood surround at the front edge where the steel brace goes. But, can I also use this method along the sides towards the firewall? Will the extra glass create a problem? I wasn't sure if where the thicker modification meets the original glass thickness along the fender tops might be a problem.
Pictures will be coming!
Thanks again for the help.
Kris
09-26-2016, 06:14 PM
#6
Race Director
Will wait on good photos. I have to be able to see what you see or are planning on wanting to do.
Extra layers of fiberglass or the thickness being increased can be taken into account... but I have to see it.
if this a total custom job....and not worrying about PURE factory correct everything...having areas be thicker and changed up a bit can be done and hidden from the 'eye'...but...like I wrote..I have to see it.
DUB
Extra layers of fiberglass or the thickness being increased can be taken into account... but I have to see it.
if this a total custom job....and not worrying about PURE factory correct everything...having areas be thicker and changed up a bit can be done and hidden from the 'eye'...but...like I wrote..I have to see it.
DUB
Last edited by DUB; 09-26-2016 at 06:14 PM.