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Old 09-10-2011, 03:35 PM   #1
RonSSNova
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Default Stock 2000 A4 Coupe at the track = Not So SLOW FIXED!

Final Update
Hi all,

New to the Corvette world and loving my car. I just picked it up 2 weeks ago from a fellow forum member. Hi JD.
What a nice car to drive. But not real impressive in the seat of the pants for power. Sounds cool though. And has the 3.15 rear gears.

My butt is calibrated to the Nova in my sig. Been drag racing for 35 years.

The Vette does have a Vararam, and a 5 pin MAF, neither of which seem to me would make much diff on a stock setup. Car also has Borla stinger, X pipe and added resonators connected to the stock 4 cat system. Again, I bet that doesn't do much.

I don't know for sure what my car would have run stone stock, kind of hard to find that info.

So, it was warm, 85 ambient. We are at 300ft above sea level, but I don't know what the DA was. Typical here in Portland is 1800-2400 ft.

I left in in drive (3) with the traction control off. No burnout....it didn't need one. Left at 1000rpm.

I got 2 runs before the Check Engine Light came on, so that was it for the night. I didn't have the DTC list handy.

The runs, and hold onto your hats:

2.16 60ft
9.34 660ft @ 77.8mph
14.37 1/4 mile @ 97.55mph

2.17 60ft
9.28 66ft @ 77.8mph
14.27 1/4mile @ 97.9mph

The car barely squeaked the tires off the line.

Turned out P0101 is a MAP sensor error. (See above)

My supercharged Cobalt will mph better.

So, how far off from a nicely tuned stock car is this? I at least thought it would break 100mph. The imports were spanking me!

I'm not disappointed, just puzzled. My goal for the car is mid/low 11's and am putting the plan together now. Already have a 3.42 diff and a 3600 Yank on the way (Thanks forum members). Need to figure out the engine pieces. I do all my own work, so I'll be elbow deep in the thing. So there is really no sence chasing the perf as it sits. But I will be buying HP tuners and comparing the present tune to the stock tune and see what is different. I understand that the MAF table might need to be changed.

I'm rambling.

Comments welcome!

Ron
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2000 MY C5 A4 (10.99 @ 123.7)
AFR 205's, Pat G 226/230, FAST 102/90, XS Power, Performabuilt, Yank SS3600, 3.42

69 Nova Alum 5.3 S476 Turbo on E85
(Tuning underway 9.58 @ 145.34 so far)
6.12 @ 117.4 1/8 mile

Last edited by RonSSNova; 10-01-2011 at 01:00 AM. Reason: Update
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Old 09-10-2011, 04:20 PM   #2
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I have a stock 2000 vert with 3.15 rear .It ran 2.05 60 ft 8.58 at 88 mph . My 2002 vert stock with 2.73 rear ran 1.96 60 ft at 8.48 at 87 mph .Both cars have automatic
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Old 09-10-2011, 07:15 PM   #3
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Congrats on your Corvette purchase, C5s are awesome cars.
In my opinion, your sixty foots are somewhat in range for the car but your ETs/trap speeds are a bit slow.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSSNova View Post
The Vette does have a Vararam, and a 5 pin MAF, neither of which seem to me would make much diff on a stock setup.
The Vararam does more than you might think but not sure about that MAF modification or why it was even done, that could possibly even be a large part of the car's laziness right there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSSNova View Post
Car also has Borla stinger, X pipe and added resonators connected to the stock 4 cat system. Again, I bet that doesn't do much.
Wait, the car has added resonators in addition to the pre-cats and cats that came stock on the car?
If so, that definitely will not help you (probably hurt you). Though the Stingers do flow well, however little that helps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSSNova View Post
I don't know for sure what my car would have run stone stock, kind of hard to find that info.

So, it was warm, 85 ambient. We are at 300ft above sea level, but I don't know what the DA was. Typical here in Portland is 1800-2400 ft.
In those conditions, a bone stock 2000 C5 LS1 with 3.15s should be running roughly 13.3s - 13.6s at 105+mph depending on driver weight, fuel load and barometric pressure readings.
With a Vararam, X-pipe and the lighter/freer flowing Borla Stingers it should run in the 13.1-13.4 second range at 107+mph, maybe even quicker.
How long did the car get to cool down (with the hood open) after arriving at the track before making passes, were you idling for a long time in the staging lanes just prior to making those passes and how much fuel did you have in the tank? Those three factors alone can add to or subtract from up to 3 tenths from your ETs. My other concern would be that MAF. The stock MAF is fine at your level of modification, any changes made there without proper tuning can potentially hurt performance.

That 3600 stall and those 3.42s will make a world of difference for the car but you might want to consider a set of drag radials after they go in.
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Old 09-10-2011, 08:31 PM   #4
YNOT2K
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for reference -

2000 coupe A4 on Michelin Pilot Sports

Mods
Blackwing with smooth air coupler
Z06 Ti catback
RPM stage II 3.42 differential
Powerbond 25% underdrive pulley
Wong's Performance Engineering dyno tune

2nd of only 2 passes ever for me.

October 16th 2010, Pacific Raceways, Kent, WA

60' 1.969
330 5.558
1/8 8.432
MPH 86.00
1000 10.899
1/4 12.985
MPH 108.39

looking forward to hearing about your progress in the PNW section!
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:11 AM   #5
ALVETTE00
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MPH is REAL low.
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:43 AM   #6
RonSSNova
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First, let me say thanks for the responses. I'm new here, and have found this to be a very knowledgable and friendly forum. Goes with the class of the car. Reminds me of the Chevelle forum where all the big block nuts like myself hang out. Now the Cobalt forum on the other hand is a polar opposite. Bunch of dumb teenagers who don't know anything but think they do. I don't think I've gleaned any solid info there at all.

The consensus seems to be that I'm down 8-10 mph. In HP terms, nearly 100 hp! My experience has shown that in this range, even down to low 10's and high 9's, it maps pretty well. When I added 140 hp to the Nova in the form of a larger more serious engine, it picked up 13-14 mph. Both engines were run on the same dyno. Not a chassis dyno.

Now I'm just going to have to figure this out. It will drive me nuts!

The MAF is suspect right off the bat.

I'll answer specific questions about the evening next.

Ron

Last edited by RonSSNova; 09-11-2011 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1LT1 View Post
Congrats on your Corvette purchase, C5s are awesome cars.

Thanks! It cruises fine and my Cobalt is pissed!
Click the image to open in full size.


The Vararam does more than you might think but not sure about that MAF modification or why it was even done, that could possibly even be a large part of the car's laziness right there.

I understand that some MAF's are recalibrated to match the original one. If not, the MAF table in memory needs to be modified. Who knows with this car?

Wait, the car has added resonators in addition to the pre-cats and cats that came stock on the car?
If so, that definitely will not help you (probably hurt you). Though the Stingers do flow well, however little that helps.

That is correct. The resonators are ahead of the X. Too bad I didn't hang around while new rubber was being installed today and get a closer look underneath. At least they told me the car looks nice and clean under there.

In those conditions, a bone stock 2000 C5 LS1 with 3.15s should be running roughly 13.3s - 13.6s at 105+mph depending on driver weight, fuel load and barometric pressure readings.
With a Vararam, X-pipe and the lighter/freer flowing Borla Stingers it should run in the 13.1-13.4 second range at 107+mph, maybe even quicker.
How long did the car get to cool down (with the hood open) after arriving at the track before making passes, were you idling for a long time in the staging lanes just prior to making those passes and how much fuel did you have in the tank?

Well, I let it cool for 30 minutes before the first pass with the hood up. Coolant temp was 185. There was no one there, so it was pull in and make a pass.
Ditto for the 2nd pass.

3/4 of a tank of fuel, and I weigh 200.
That 3600 stall and those 3.42s will make a world of difference for the car but you might want to consider a set of drag radials after they go in.
Yep! DR's are in the plan. Hoosiers are probably the best (thinly disguised radial slick) but are short lived. So the M/T will likely get the nod. I see Goodyear and M&H make them as well.

I get to learn how to remove the trans and diff my own bad self. I've already studied the how to for the upgrades to the diff. Looks very straight forward. I'd like to find some good instructions or a kit to do the trans as well. Can't be too much different than a turbo 400. You know, start by pouring one bottle of ATF on your head, then one under the car and slide on in.

Thanks LS/LT!

Ron
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Old 09-11-2011, 01:50 AM   #8
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Ron, good luck getting that car to run where you want it. I'm in Portland also and I just have to say that you should consider yourself fortunate to live relatively close to a first class LS tuner, Tom Wong of Wong's Performance Engineering.

http://www.wongsperformanceengineering.com/

He's a one man show and a real easy guy to talk to.

When the time comes for a tune, look nowhere else.
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Old 09-11-2011, 02:44 AM   #9
RonSSNova
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judgnot View Post
Ron, good luck getting that car to run where you want it. I'm in Portland also and I just have to say that you should consider yourself fortunate to live relatively close to a first class LS tuner, Tom Wong of Wong's Performance Engineering.

http://www.wongsperformanceengineering.com/

He's a one man show and a real easy guy to talk to.

When the time comes for a tune, look nowhere else.
Thanks! I have heard of Tom, but just recently. I'm better with a dominator under the hood. Whole new world for me, I'm excited to learn.

I'll check it out.

Ron
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Old 09-11-2011, 04:42 AM   #10
LS1LT1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSSNova View Post
Well, I let it cool for 30 minutes before the first pass with the hood up. Coolant temp was 185. There was no one there, so it was pull in and make a pass.
Ditto for the 2nd pass.
3/4 of a tank of fuel, and I weigh 200.
Ok, that's all pretty good good...you can maybe try only 1/3 tank (but no less than a 1/4, especially on a C5 with some miles on it/older fuel pump etc.) of gas next time, gas is roughly 6 pounds per gallon but that's still not going to you back the nearly full second that you seem to be missing.




Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSSNova View Post
Yep! DR's are in the plan. Hoosiers are probably the best (thinly disguised radial slick) but are short lived. So the M/T will likely get the nod. I see Goodyear and M&H make them as well.
Yes Hoosiers are likely the best but M/Ts will last longer. The Goodyears are good too but the M&Hs seem to only come in some odd sizes so choose wisely.




Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSSNova View Post
I get to learn how to remove the trans and diff my own bad self. I've already studied the how to for the upgrades to the diff. Looks very straight forward.
It's no picnic but can be done in your driveway...you'll need to get the car up pretty high to make your life a little easier, access to a lift would be ideal of course.
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Old 09-11-2011, 10:41 AM   #11
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Best of luck with the C5.

But tell us more about that beast of a Nova
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:32 PM   #12
RonSSNova
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99ZX9R View Post
Best of luck with the C5.

But tell us more about that beast of a Nova
Sure.
498" BB (454+ bore and stroke)
AFR heads
Comp street solid roller cam
Brodix intake with a Quick Fuel dominator.
9.5:1 and made 700 hp on pump gas.

TH400 with 9" ATI converter.

12 bolt spool with either 4.10 or 3.73 (for the bottle)
I use 9" Hoosier radial slicks.

9.91 best NA and 9.41 best with 150 shot.
It's been on the bumper, and that slowed me down for quite some time.
150 right at the hit, I thought it would spin, it didn't.

With either a nitrous timer, or progressive controller and more spray, I think it could nudge the 8's. Or drive over the crank.

I believe I will sell it in the spring. Although I always drive it to the track, it isn't much of a street car. Full cage, lexan windows etc.

Click the image to open in full size.

I only have a 1 car garage.

Now back to our regularily scheduled Corvette program.

Ron
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:38 PM   #13
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Try cleaning the MAF, couldn't figure out why my SS was so slow (14.6ish) cleaned the maf and went 12.8

Cheap, easy, and worth a shot
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSSNova View Post
Sure.
498" BB (454+ bore and stroke)
AFR heads
Comp street solid roller cam
Brodix intake with a Quick Fuel dominator.
9.5:1 and made 700 hp on pump gas.

TH400 with 9" ATI converter.

12 bolt spool with either 4.10 or 3.73 (for the bottle)
I use 9" Hoosier radial slicks.

9.91 best NA and 9.41 best with 150 shot.
It's been on the bumper, and that slowed me down for quite some time.
150 right at the hit, I thought it would spin, it didn't.

With either a nitrous timer, or progressive controller and more spray, I think it could nudge the 8's. Or drive over the crank.

I believe I will sell it in the spring. Although I always drive it to the track, it isn't much of a street car. Full cage, lexan windows etc.

Click the image to open in full size.
I love that generation of Nova, pretty badass car.
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:31 AM   #15
RonSSNova
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACLR8R View Post
Try cleaning the MAF, couldn't figure out why my SS was so slow (14.6ish) cleaned the maf and went 12.8

Cheap, easy, and worth a shot
Didn't get a chance to mess with it today. But good idea. I haven't looked to see if the air filter might need cleaning either.
I'll get to it Tues and let you know what I find.
Thanks!

Ron
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Old 09-12-2011, 07:53 AM   #16
99ZX9R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSSNova View Post
Sure.
498" BB (454+ bore and stroke)
AFR heads
Comp street solid roller cam
Brodix intake with a Quick Fuel dominator.
9.5:1 and made 700 hp on pump gas.

TH400 with 9" ATI converter.

12 bolt spool with either 4.10 or 3.73 (for the bottle)
I use 9" Hoosier radial slicks.

9.91 best NA and 9.41 best with 150 shot.
It's been on the bumper, and that slowed me down for quite some time.
150 right at the hit, I thought it would spin, it didn't.

With either a nitrous timer, or progressive controller and more spray, I think it could nudge the 8's. Or drive over the crank.

I believe I will sell it in the spring. Although I always drive it to the track, it isn't much of a street car. Full cage, lexan windows etc.

Click the image to open in full size.

I only have a 1 car garage.

Now back to our regularily scheduled Corvette program.

Ron
Very nice. That's some good HP for a pump gas motor
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Old 09-12-2011, 02:38 PM   #17
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p0101 is why your car is slow...

This causes the car to run in SD mode and ignores any input from the maf. Fix the p0101 and you will be back to normal. I would pick up a used stock maf sensor off someone on the board. They can be had for about $50.
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Old 09-12-2011, 02:41 PM   #18
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If a new maf doesn't fix it, get with a tuner who is trustworthy as they can run logs to help figure out the problem.
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Old 09-12-2011, 05:17 PM   #19
RonSSNova
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SD = Speed Density mode correct?
The CEL didn't come on until either during or after the 2nd pass.
Perhaps the PCM knew it but didn't illuminate the CEL prior?
Anyway, the light went off after 3 restarts.

I have a good stock MAF on the way.
Also have access to HP tuners. I plan to buy my own.

Thanks a lot.

Ron
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Old 09-12-2011, 05:24 PM   #20
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Hey Ron..

For a loose comparison, my buddy has a bone stock 01, auto, I am not sure what gears, probably the 2.7x or something. That car ran a best of 13.70@102 mph and my buddy weighed like 280lbs at that time. They had bought the car new and it was his wife's DD so it was a virgin....


One more, a bit of a stretch but I had a bone stock 98' Trans Am A4 back in 98. With only a K&N filter and air box lid, it ran 13.76@103. That was with 2.73 gears and in pretty good Fall air...

I'd guess you are about 5 mph off depending on how bad your DA was...
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Old 09-12-2011, 05:24 PM
 
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