C 5

I have a HCI + full bolt on c5z that put down 468/415 on a superflow dyno with dynojet correction factor.

I am looking to make a bit more power without going FI or on the bottle.
here is the basic setup:
(not listing all of the supporting mods such as oil pump/springs etc)
01 z06, AFR 210 heads (unported. 66cc)
621 623 232 234 @ 114 cam
Powerbond UDP
1 3/4 Long tubes+free flowing exhaust, pretty much straight thru mufflers
Fast 92 (unported)>Ported LS2 TB>SLP Blackwing intake
Im thinking get the heads milled to up the compression to make power and possibly port the 92 or get the 102. What else would you do to make more power and how much is there more on the table with my setup?

LSOHOLIC

Need to focus on.....
Quench
Dynamic Cr
Maximizing fuel being used
Valvetrain weight & geometry
Valve angles
Header size & collector design & length
Pan pressure
Maximize valve events to your desired rpm range
Huge parasitic losses
Fluids
Proper sized induction system

I can say this.....in a 346" pump gas combo....your currently leaving well over 60rwhp on the table. And be careful about cutting your heads before you get the big picture dialed in. Hard to put it back...lol. IMO, you need to have your quench and ptv nailed down(meaning pick your cam)....thus, giving you your chamber size to work with.

Good luck with your project...

.

123sugey

EWP, vacuum pump, cut outs... Will add to your full bolt ons

LSOHOLIC

Let me be more clear.

In a N/A application tight quench in your friend...aka; makes power. A typical stock LS piston is out of the hole roughly .006" (you need to measure yours to be sure, to be accurate you need to rock the piston at tdc to measure the absolute extreme deviation).
You are able to run very tight quench if you cover your a$$. I personally run a .030"/3.910" head gasket. Only good parts and accurate measurments allow this....other wise carnage will ensue.
Once you have determined how much quench your comfortable with next is ptv.
I can tell you, your cam is to small for big power. Your intake lobe will have trouble filling the cylinder at a decent rpm (thus shift recovery will suffer). But if you decide to stay with your current cam you will want to maximize your ptv (you will have to fly cut for maximum cam/hp). Meaning running the industry standard minimum or even tighter in a "max effort" case.
This is where a quality "short travel" lifter comes into play as well as stable lobes for the intended rpm and weight of the valve train. The lighter the valve train the more aggressive you can get with the lobes. The quicker the ramps typically the more power it makes (lazy lobes are for your RV). There are proven examples of a lighter weight valve stabilizing the upper rpm, thus increasing power under the curve.
Next is the compression.....you will want to maximize your static because as you go larger with your intake lobe you will lose dynamic compression. And that is what makes the power. But be sure your fuel of choice can maintain stability under the new dynamic load.
So after you have calc'ed and measured everything twice you will know how much material you can remove from your heads/chambers. At this time you can "roll" the head, effectively gaining an angle or two on the valve to bore ratio. It all depends on the amount of material being removed and manifold alignment.
It has been proven by the "346 elite" that the 1 7/8th headers are superior in a max effort build. Collector design (clean merge and spike) as well as proper primary lengths play large roles in shaping the power curve. And a free flowing muffler or cutouts (which I dont like because of the added weight) will add power.
Parasitic loss is real and robs lots of power. An electric water pump is a must.....and down stream there is a lot to gain also (pressure plate/flywheel, fluids, brakes, wheels and tire...ect), all will show big gain if attention is paid to parasitic losses.
A vacuum pump has been shown to make anywhere from 7-15 rwhp on a stock bottom setup. And not all pumps are created equal...do your homework.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. ..but sbould get your head in the right place. And we didnt even go into the valve job, runners, chambers and manifold....lol

Good luck with your setup.

RonSSNova

I'm purdy sure he said a "bit" more power.......

:-)

Ron

LSOHOLIC

Lol....he mentioned cutting the head some more. If he goes that route....there is more power there if he addresses the "small" things. Some of which are free, if you have a game plan.


.

RonSSNova

I hear ya. As you said, need a game plan. Prob would have been best to have that at the start. And use diff pistons.

I was chicken on the quench with mine. But any tighter and I'd have had to notch pistons even with my small cam. It's .075" on the intake as is.

Ron

NemesisC5

Old thread but basics apply.

The "recipe" to 500 rwhp with heads and cam.


AFR 205's + 228/228 113* = 500 RWHP!!

RonSSNova

CTD is my good friend and tuning mentor,

Ron

shawnaj7731

WELL I KNOW ITS NOT A LS6 OR LS1 BUT I DID IT WITH MY 05 C6 MN6 LS2 AND IT WAS NOT HIGH DOLLAR TOP OF THE LINE STUFF AND ITS A DAILY DRIVER, DRIVES NORMAL A LITTLE BUCKING IN 6TH GEAR 80MPH WHEN CRUISING NOTHING MAJOR I AM SURE IT CAN GET TUNED OUT SOME MORE. 512RWHP 450RWTQ

1.HEAD TEXAS SPEED AS CAST 225 7.5 PUSHRODS , STOCK ROCKER ARMS(http://www.texas-speed.com/p-3515-pr...ral-heads.aspx)
2.PORTED FAST 102 INTAKE, WITH PORT OEM THROTTLE BODY VARARAM CAI, FAST 46LB INJECTORS
3.OBX LONGTUBE HEADERS WITH LOUDMOUTH II AXLEBACK EXHAUST
4.COMPS CAM 231/243 .617/.623 LSA 113+4
5.PB 25%UD PULLEY
6. TUNED BY THE BEST.

CactusCat

Ron, got a question for ya. Have read this thread a few times and have seen your comment here about .075" quench on your engine. My engine guy is going to put a "bigger" cam in my stock bottom end LS1. It's a 234/244 .612/.598 with a 114. We mocked up a spare LS1 stock bottom end block with some 243s that had been "cleaned" (.005) and using the new cam with a solid lifter we still had .085 clearance. My 243s have been milled .020 so taking that into account, even a fully pumped up lifter would have at least .065 clearance, maybe .070. So..........since yours is at .075, have you experienced any problems? I value your input here as your drive and mine seem to be very similar. I'm not adverse to fly cutting but would prefer not to if I can get by. My engine guy thinks we're going to be ok with this as do I, but some other opinions can't hurt. Comments? BTW, any others that would like to chime in, get it on. I'm flame proof too so don't worry about my feelings...

RonSSNova

Hey, how's it going?

I sure haven't had issues with the valves kissing the Pistons. As far as I know......

I did a leakdown this summer and all were 4-7%. So I doubt the Pistons and valves ever got friendly with each other.

I have AFR heads and they have bigger valves than the 243. So that contributes. My cam is smaller.
My Pistons are .007" out of the hole. I used the .050" gaskets.
So not the tightest possible quench.

The .075 clearance occurred as the intake valve opens and the piston going down.

So if you have good valve control, a collision is not likely.

What I have had a lot of trouble with are the roller rockers. When I get into the engine in the future, the AFR heads will get iron guides and I'll go back to stock rockers. And I bet the engine will gain rpm.

If your guy is nervous, have him fly cut the intake. It wouldn't take much!

CactusCat

We're using the stock GM head gaskets and the heads have the stock rockers with trunion upgrade. Have Lunati dual springs so I think the valves shouldn't get away from me. Hoping for about 20 more rwhp with this cam. It's got good street manners too with the 114. I'll let you know how it turns out. Both of us had some questions, but after doing the mockup, we're both sure we'll be ok. Appreciate your input. I'll keep you updated on how it goes.

RonSSNova

Cool! Look forward to the results.

robz

I'd do a 102/102 and have Mamo port them.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Just an FYI that I have been on countless style dyno's (with the same combination/car etc.).....A straight up SAE Super Flow # is on the conservative end of the spectrum (A 3-4 on a 1-10 scale), but their conversion factor for a Dynojet is waaay hot (a 12 on a 1-10 scale).....just a heads up. At the end of the day if you go back to the same dyno and use the correction factor to see your gains or losses its all good as that's the only thing that counts. They are all just barometers and the trick is knowing what your dealing with and whats really important.

That being said if your willing to do some labor you can remove the stock heads and sent them back to me for some port work. Flow would improve and I would also mill the chambers some for higher compression.

A ported 102 would be kick azz also but it would be alot cheaper just to have me port your FAST 92 when its off. Car would be alot more responsive and make more power (notably) with the mods Ive discussed but you have to be willing to get in there and get dirty removing the heads.

You might consider selling them and trading up to my new MMS 220 heads.....honestly the net dollars would be very similar and you would make even more power with the new 220 head.....its outstanding and surpassed my highest realistic expectations by a few CFM on both intake and exhaust. I suspect you will be hearing alot about these in the next few months.....the first wave of heads are shipping next week so independent results should be just around the corner.

I will be starting a new thread discussing these heads and all the specs in the next few days.







If I can be of any help let me know but addressing all the small details and improving the cylinder head flow would make a notable difference in your power output.



Regards,
Tony

PS.....Out of curiosity, what was the SAE SuperFlow number before the "Dynojet conversion"??....betting about 15 lower.

GARY2004Z06

Tony knows his stuff.

dankhts

looking forward to hearing the results of these new Mamo heads.....

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

I will be posting a new thread soon on the C5 Tech section of this board with all their specs, flow figures, etc......if I think of it when I do I will throw a link up in this thread.....probably only a couple of days away. I just shipped the first five sets this week....I'm sure it will take most guys a month or so before they get their new combo's on the dyno but time flies and independent results should be just around the corner. I'm building an engine with them (just a 347) and heading to the engine dyno around a very similar time line and will be posting the results from that situation as well

Cheers,
Tony

robz

Good advice.

OP: Did you make any changes?