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Old 10-05-2011, 11:05 AM   #1
Chemdawg99
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Default Aristotle's Six Types of Government

Depending upon the number of people involved in governing and the focus of their interests, Aristotle distinguished six kinds of social structure in three pairs:

A state with only one ruler is either a monarchy or a tyrrany;

A state with several rulers is either an aristocracy or an oligarchy; and

A state in which all rule is either a polity or a democracy.


According to Aristotle, the legitmate forms of gov't (rule in the interests of all) are:
Monarchy, Aristocracy, and Polity

The corrupt forms of gov't are:
Tyranny, Oligarchy, and Democracy

According to Aristotle, Democracy is the most corrupt form of gov't of all because people in a Democracy are deluded into thinking that one person is as good as another. That the massess in a democracy follow the lead of corrupt and selfish demagogues and plunder the property of the hardworking and the capable.

Are we living under such a gov't now?

Amazing his classification of gov't is still useful after 25 centuries.
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Old 10-05-2011, 11:12 AM   #2
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Are we living under such a gov't now?

Amazing his classification of gov't is still useful after 25 centuries.
All monarchies become tyrannies, all aristocracies become oligarchies, and all republics/polities become democracy (mob rule). History is clear on the corrupting nature of power, especially within government.

Of course we live in such a government. However, we have a nice mixture of all 3 corrupt forms of government.

Executive Branch = tyrant
SCOTUS = oligarchs
House/Senate = mob

At this point, the three different forms trade corruption and evil amongst each other, at the expense of the populus
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Old 10-05-2011, 11:16 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by mhill0531 View Post
All monarchies become tyrannies, all aristocracies become oligarchies, and all republics/polities become democracy (mob rule). History is clear on the corrupting nature of power, especially within government.

Of course we live in such a government. However, we have a nice mixture of all 3 corrupt forms of government.

Executive Branch = tyrant
SCOTUS = oligarchs
House/Senate = mob

At this point, the three different forms trade corruption and evil amongst each other, at the expense of the populus
Most excellent. I agree with one caveat. I think the House/Senate belongs in the oligarch category.
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:17 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Chemdawg99 View Post
Depending upon the number of people involved in governing and the focus of their interests, Aristotle distinguished six kinds of social structure in three pairs:

A state with only one ruler is either a monarchy or a tyrrany;

A state with several rulers is either an aristocracy or an oligarchy; and

A state in which all rule is either a polity or a democracy.


According to Aristotle, the legitmate forms of gov't (rule in the interests of all) are:
Monarchy, Aristocracy, and Polity

The corrupt forms of gov't are:
Tyranny, Oligarchy, and Democracy

According to Aristotle, Democracy is the most corrupt form of gov't of all because people in a Democracy are deluded into thinking that one person is as good as another. That the massess in a democracy follow the lead of corrupt and selfish demagogues and plunder the property of the hardworking and the capable.

Are we living under such a gov't now?

Amazing his classification of gov't is still useful after 25 centuries.
Can I be so crass as to reply in the vernacular?

Duh!
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:44 PM   #5
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Most excellent. I agree with one caveat. I think the House/Senate belongs in the oligarch category.
The House and Senate are oligarch mouthpieces of the lobbyist mob. It's a quibbling point of minutia really.

But the broader answer we agree on - yes, our government is totally corrupt according to Aristotelian thinking.
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:50 PM   #6
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The House and Senate are oligarch mouthpieces of the lobbyist mob. It's a quibbling point of minutia really.

But the broader answer we agree on - yes, our government is totally corrupt according to Aristotelian thinking.
This is why I sincerely wish it would collapse and cannot in good conscience vote for the two major parties under any circumstances.
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:57 PM   #7
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This is why I sincerely wish it would collapse and cannot in good conscience vote for the two major parties under any circumstances.
Hey Huey, what would you replace our gov't with if you got your wish?

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:59 PM   #8
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Hey Huey, what would you replace our gov't with if you got your wish?

Click the image to open in full size.
The constitutional republic we were meant to be.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:34 PM   #9
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Here's the best take on it I've found:

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Old 10-05-2011, 03:34 PM   #10
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The constitutional republic we were meant to be.
Sadly, the only language tyrants understand is violence. History is quite clear. In our case, only a redux of 1860-1861 would suffice, and that is nearly impossible because the majority of states are so hooked on Uncle Sam's crack pipe that they'll never get straight.

That would be the aggressive chemotherapy that could save the patient.

The likeliest outcome is prolonged apathy brought on by the stupor of socialism just letting us rot and eventually die of the disease brought to us in the early 20th century.

Our country since Woodrow Wilson is walking almost year for year, day for day, decision for decision in lockstep with the Roman Empire of the 5 good Emperors, and right now, we have Commodus. Read up on it. The similarities are positively eerie.

Naysayers will point to our peaceful transitions of power, and once upon a time, I was one such naysayer. Now I know why we are so peaceful. We don't transfer power. The tyrants and oligarchs keep it, they just shift around where people sit in relation to the money pile. That's how a thugocracy works. So why be violent when all that is really happening is changing the face in front of the camera?

If Obama goes away next November, he'll end up on TV more, get paid more to be there, and along with his lifetime pension and SS detail, be more insulated from removal. Why would that be violent? The GOP will be doing him a favor if they bounce him. He can then go be the EU's court jester of American apology and guilt, while getting paid mad coin to do it.

Commodus Hussein Obama
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:41 PM   #11
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Sadly, the only language tyrants understand is violence. History is quite clear. In our case, only a redux of 1860-1861 would suffice, and that is nearly impossible because the majority of states are so hooked on Uncle Sam's crack pipe that they'll never get straight.

That would be the aggressive chemotherapy that could save the patient.

The likeliest outcome is prolonged apathy brought on by the stupor of socialism just letting us rot and eventually die of the disease brought to us in the early 20th century.

Our country since Woodrow Wilson is walking almost year for year, day for day, decision for decision in lockstep with the Roman Empire of the 5 good Emperors, and right now, we have Commodus. Read up on it. The similarities are positively eerie.

Naysayers will point to our peaceful transitions of power, and once upon a time, I was one such naysayer. Now I know why we are so peaceful. We don't transfer power. The tyrants and oligarchs keep it, they just shift around where people sit in relation to the money pile. That's how a thugocracy works. So why be violent when all that is really happening is changing the face in front of the camera?

If Obama goes away next November, he'll end up on TV more, get paid more to be there, and along with his lifetime pension and SS detail, be more insulated from removal. Why would that be violent? The GOP will be doing him a favor if they bounce him. He can then go be the EU's court jester of American apology and guilt, while getting paid mad coin to do it.

Commodus Hussein Obama
100%.

Question, if Obama is Commodus, then who is Bush 43?

Other than the occasional Cowboys game, the man doesn't even come out of his house. I don't the buy the "Obama deserves my silence" BS for one minute.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:48 PM   #12
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Human beings are social creatures who run in clans.

Someone needs to be in charge. Someone always is. And it's always the same people - just different costumes.

We, as individuals, are as chained today as we were when the local feudal lord rode roughshod over his land.

We like to think we have freedoms - but we really don't. Ya - we can call the president a mother****er ... but look around at all the bitching ... taxes this, regulations that, interest group this, political power that ...

We simply ebb and flow some components of what we call freedoms with others between the fancy names we have for governoring controls we put in place.

The only places in our history that were "free" was when we were conquoring the frontiers .... once the rest of the nation caught up - back to business as usual.

It's always been a question of whether you want the trains to run on time, or to be able to call the king an asshat.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:48 PM   #13
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100%.

Question, if Obama is Commodus, then who is Bush 43?

Other than the occasional Cowboys game, the man doesn't even come out of his house. I don't the buy the "Obama deserves my silence" BS for one minute.
He and Laura go to the airport and greet soldiers coming back from the sandbox all the time.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:58 PM   #14
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He and Laura go to the airport and greet soldiers coming back from the sandbox all the time.
That too.
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:24 PM   #15
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100%.

Question, if Obama is Commodus, then who is Bush 43?

Other than the occasional Cowboys game, the man doesn't even come out of his house. I don't the buy the "Obama deserves my silence" BS for one minute.
LBJ through Bush 43 represent Marcus Aurelius and the growth of the warfare state by proxy...roughly anyway, along with the continual economic erosion due to the simultaneous growth of the welfare state.

FDR is Trajan, loosely. Ike and JFK are Hadrian. Follow the bouncing ball, and yeah, Obama is Commodus.
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:27 PM   #16
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LBJ through Bush 43 represent Marcus Aurelius and the growth of the warfare state by proxy...roughly anyway, along with the continual economic erosion due to the simultaneous growth of the welfare state.

FDR is Trajan, loosely. Ike and JFK are Hadrian. Follow the bouncing ball, and yeah, Obama is Commodus.
I gotta read up on my Roman history.

What do you think of the Tea Party as a movement? Can it succeed?
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:41 PM   #17
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I gotta read up on my Roman history.

What do you think of the Tea Party as a movement? Can it succeed?
It has already become a corrupted version of what it was meant to be. So not only will it not succeed, it has already failed, if going by its original purpose.

Taxed Enough Already was supposed to mean no new taxes and less government spending. Well, we have new taxes and more government spending than ever before. Sure, the GOP won an historic victory in the US House in 2008. And? The result of their big showdown with Obama and Reid was to lower the growth rate of the national debt by ~3% this year, and even that was theoretical, because the new Obama job bill will likely become a $200-250 billion compromise to save political face for 2012, which will negate the theoretical $50 billion "savings" from the epic showdown of much theater and little consequence, meaning that the Tea Party will have helped elect a new slate of corruptocrats who did nothing whatsoever in line with the original purpose of the Tea Party movement.

If Mitt Romney becomes President, which is just as likely as it ever was, then close the book on the TP thing and relegate them to a quirky fad of 2009-2010. Even if someone else besides him becomes POTUS, don't look for the House-Senate greed machine to slow down, because once they ascend to office, they find out that you can steal from the cupboard as long as you chant words like "fair" and "compassion" while doing it.

Nothing can fix this broken machine now. We limp along with it out of respect for our elders, or we kill it and replace it. Only two futures I see.
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:45 PM   #18
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It has already become a corrupted version of what it was meant to be. So not only will it not succeed, it has already failed, if going by its original purpose.

Taxed Enough Already was supposed to mean no new taxes and less government spending. Well, we have new taxes and more government spending than ever before. Sure, the GOP won an historic victory in the US House in 2008. And? The result of their big showdown with Obama and Reid was to lower the growth rate of the national debt by ~3% this year, and even that was theoretical, because the new Obama job bill will likely become a $200-250 billion compromise to save political face for 2012, which will negate the theoretical $50 billion "savings" from the epic showdown of much theater and little consequence, meaning that the Tea Party will have helped elect a new slate of corruptocrats who did nothing whatsoever in line with the original purpose of the Tea Party movement.

If Mitt Romney becomes President, which is just as likely as it ever was, then close the book on the TP thing and relegate them to a quirky fad of 2009-2010. Even if someone else besides him becomes POTUS, don't look for the House-Senate greed machine to slow down, because once they ascend to office, they find out that you can steal from the cupboard as long as you chant words like "fair" and "compassion" while doing it.

Nothing can fix this broken machine now. We limp along with it out of respect for our elders, or we kill it and replace it. Only two futures I see.
Given what I know about how gov't works (as opposed to how its supposed to work) that is the only futures I see as well.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:02 PM   #19
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And one more thing on the Tea Party - standing around protesting is not the same as an actual act of protest. The real Tea Party poked the most powerful tyrant on Earth at the time in the eye with a stick. Not long afterward, that same King was given a verbose "f**k you" written in wonderful wordsmithing, signed by a bunch of rich smart people, who then backed up that note with a Continental Army and paid allies in the French and Spanish.

The MAJORITY wanted the tyranny to end.

In our case, the MAJORITY like things just fine, son long as they get the biggest piece of free cake and nobody steals off their plate.

Wholly different situations and the analogy is insulting at this point. The Tea Party is nothing more than slightly more conservative Republicans with more free time. Find an acronym for that and you have what they've become.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:17 PM   #20
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Can someone pass me the Xanax?
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:17 PM
 
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