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Old 12-21-2011, 06:36 AM   #1
540 vette
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Default Is the Shroud of Turin real.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...&ncid=webmail1


A series of experiments conducted by Italian researchers indicate the Shroud of Turin is likely authentic, but the team has not yet reached a definite conclusion.

Decades of research on Jesus' proposed burial cloth have revealed an array of conflicting ideas surrounding the shroud's authenticity. However, researchers from Italy's National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development believe their findings undermine previous theories that the shroud was faked in the medieval period, the Telegraph reports. The new claim seems to again be stirring controversy, as many point to previous research to the contrary.

Last year scientists were able to replicate marks on the cloth using highly advanced ultraviolet techniques that weren't available 2,000 years ago -- nor during the medieval times, for that matter.

Research in the 1980s suggests the image was "forged" on the cloth between 1260 and 1390, but scientists have determined the hypothesis was based on testing material from a patch likely used to to repair the cloth after a fire, the BBC reports.

Since the shroud and "all its facets" still cannot be replicated using today's top-notch technology, researchers suggest it is impossible that the original image could have been created in either period.

However, scientists are willing to point out the flaw in their findings. The Vatican Insider reports:

This inability to repeat (and therefore falsify) the image on the Shroud makes it impossible to formulate a reliable hypothesis on how the impression was made.

Still, lead researcher professor Manuela Marinelli estimates the cloth is at least 95 percent authentic, the Voice of Russia points out. "Nobody can give 100 percent guarantees 2,000 years after it had been found."

The findings are bound to rile up both believers and skeptics, but as Tom Chivers, the Telegraph's assistant comment editor indicates:

The "authenticity" or otherwise of the Shroud of Turin does not have any implications for whether or not Christ was real, or whether He was divine. If it was a medieval forgery, it doesn't mean the stories aren't true; if it really was made in the first century AD, it doesn't mean they were.

The research team emphasizes their inclinations are not definite, but the Vatican Insider points out one of history's biggest mystery still has no answer:

Regardless of the age the Shroud, whether it is medieval (1260 - 1390) as shown by the controversial dating by radiocarbon, or older as indicated by other investigations, and regardless of the actual importance of controversial historical documents on the existence of the Shroud in the years preceding 1260, the most important question, the "question of questions" remains the same: how did that body image appear on the Shroud?
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Old 12-21-2011, 06:49 AM   #2
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how did that body image appear on the Shroud?
I saw a ducky in a cloud. How did that image appear there?
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:14 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by 540 vette View Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...&ncid=webmail1


A series of experiments conducted by Italian researchers indicate the Shroud of Turin is likely authentic, but the team has not yet reached a definite conclusion.

Decades of research on Jesus' proposed burial cloth have revealed an array of conflicting ideas surrounding the shroud's authenticity. However, researchers from Italy's National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development believe their findings undermine previous theories that the shroud was faked in the medieval period, the Telegraph reports. The new claim seems to again be stirring controversy, as many point to previous research to the contrary.

Last year scientists were able to replicate marks on the cloth using highly advanced ultraviolet techniques that weren't available 2,000 years ago -- nor during the medieval times, for that matter.

Research in the 1980s suggests the image was "forged" on the cloth between 1260 and 1390, but scientists have determined the hypothesis was based on testing material from a patch likely used to to repair the cloth after a fire, the BBC reports.

Since the shroud and "all its facets" still cannot be replicated using today's top-notch technology, researchers suggest it is impossible that the original image could have been created in either period.

However, scientists are willing to point out the flaw in their findings. The Vatican Insider reports:

This inability to repeat (and therefore falsify) the image on the Shroud makes it impossible to formulate a reliable hypothesis on how the impression was made.

Still, lead researcher professor Manuela Marinelli estimates the cloth is at least 95 percent authentic, the Voice of Russia points out. "Nobody can give 100 percent guarantees 2,000 years after it had been found."

The findings are bound to rile up both believers and skeptics, but as Tom Chivers, the Telegraph's assistant comment editor indicates:

The "authenticity" or otherwise of the Shroud of Turin does not have any implications for whether or not Christ was real, or whether He was divine. If it was a medieval forgery, it doesn't mean the stories aren't true; if it really was made in the first century AD, it doesn't mean they were.

The research team emphasizes their inclinations are not definite, but the Vatican Insider points out one of history's biggest mystery still has no answer:

Regardless of the age the Shroud, whether it is medieval (1260 - 1390) as shown by the controversial dating by radiocarbon, or older as indicated by other investigations, and regardless of the actual importance of controversial historical documents on the existence of the Shroud in the years preceding 1260, the most important question, the "question of questions" remains the same: how did that body image appear on the Shroud?
Thanks for posting this, I've always been interested in how they have been trying to authenticate the Shroud.
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:21 AM   #4
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I saw a ducky in a cloud. How did that image appear there?
Drugs
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:31 AM   #5
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:20 AM   #6
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Yeah, it's real. No, it wasn't Jesus.

Get over it, "Shrouders".
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:49 AM   #7
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Last year, the History channel aired a special called "The Real Face of Jesus?" I was so impressed that I bought a copy.

I strongly suggest anyone who's interested to do a search and watch it. Compelling stuff.
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:31 AM   #8
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Last year, the History channel aired a special called "The Real Face of Jesus?" I was so impressed that I bought a copy.

I strongly suggest anyone who's interested to do a search and watch it. Compelling stuff.

I also saw that. It probably made a lot of people realize that Jesus didn't look like Jeffrey Hunter, blond hair blue eyes and actually looked Arabic.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:17 AM   #9
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Interesting, citing a "ducky in a cloud" to justify a 2,000 year old image that cannot be replicated even with today's technology. Apple anyone? Orange anyone? Close your eyes and plug your ears and maybe the potential evidence will go away ;-)
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:17 AM   #10
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The best theory that I have seen for the creation of the Shroud image is that it is the result of a Maillard reaction.

In order for a Maillard reaction to result in the image, the cloth must have been removed from the body at the right time, to short, and no image, to long, and the image is a blur.

While this is a natural explanation, in my opinion, I still find it's creation miraculous.
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:04 AM   #11
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IF it is fake then you have no worries.
IF it is real then you have one worry.
Do you feel lucky punk? is the only REAL question.
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:33 AM   #12
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Yeah, it's real. No, it wasn't Jesus.
It can't be Jesus as the Shroud is said to be dated around the 1.200 AD...
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:50 AM   #13
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It can't be Jesus as the Shroud is said to be dated around the 1.200 AD...
Did you read the article?

"Research in the 1980s suggests the image was "forged" on the cloth between 1260 and 1390, but scientists have determined the hypothesis was based on testing material from a patch likely used to to repair the cloth after a fire, the BBC reports."
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:51 AM   #14
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It can't be Jesus as the Shroud is said to be dated around the 1.200 AD...
The carbon dating you speak of was taken from the corner of the shroud that was most likely mended, so the fibers dated were indeed accurately dated to the time of the mend.

In a world full of thousands of fake artifacts, the Shroud of Turin appears to be the real deal. There is no scientific explanation at this time that can explain how this was created as a forgery. The amount of scrutiny the Shorud has had is pretty incredible and the results all speak to it being something much different than a Middle Ages forgery. Lots of elaborate theories now being brewed up by incredulous aitheists on how it cannot possibly be real. Until something comes up that completely debunks all the previous scientific examinations,
Occam's razor says the logical conclusion is....it's the genuine article.
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:54 AM   #15
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Did you read the article?

"Research in the 1980s suggests the image was "forged" on the cloth between 1260 and 1390, but scientists have determined the hypothesis was based on testing material from a patch likely used to to repair the cloth after a fire, the BBC reports."
I remember seeing a show about that on Discovery ( I think) where they specifically talked about that.

The sample used for dating was taken from an area that was obviously a repair that happened much later than the original material. Part of the reason for that was it is considered so rare that it is very difficult to get approval to take samples

By the way, the thread title "Is the Shroud of Turin real. " is a bit of a misnomer. Of course it's real. It's just that no one is sure of how the image got there
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:00 AM   #16
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By the way, the thread title "Is the Shroud of Turin real. " is a bit of a misnomer. Of course it's real. It's just that no one is sure of how the image got there
Or who the image is of ...
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:11 AM   #17
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Default not even da vinci

could have done it nor Michelangelo

no artists from 5000 bc(or bce) until the 20th century could have "created" it with the materials and technology available.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:23 AM   #18
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Did you read the article?

"Research in the 1980s suggests the image was "forged" on the cloth between 1260 and 1390, but scientists have determined the hypothesis was based on testing material from a patch likely used to to repair the cloth after a fire, the BBC reports."
Nop, I saw a tv programm in Italy talking about the Shroud and they were talking about its probable date and the programm interviewed some (I guess english if I remember well) scientists stating that I might has been of around the 12th century.

The Shroud is anyway a beautifull piece of wonder, from whatever perspective you want to look at it.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:26 AM   #19
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IF it is fake then you have no worries.
IF it is real then you have one worry.
Do you feel lucky punk? is the only REAL question.
I got 99 problems but a shroud ain't one!
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:32 AM   #20
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Its the real deal no question.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:32 AM
 
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