:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

So, modifications are not the basis for comparison, but encountering a car with modifications is? That's a semantic distinction without a difference.............:willy:

Rear seats are a part of that, but they are not everything. In the 911...
If you want the additional security of head and knee airbags, you can have it.
If you want braking safety technology taken for granted in this segment, you have it.
If you want a minimum level of rollover protection in convertibles, you have it.
If you want a more racecar-like feel of an engine that revs to 7800 rpm, you can have it.
If you want external threshold lighting and ambient lighting, you can have that.
If you want front and rear park distance sensors, you can have that.
If you want headlights that peer around corners at night and adapt to conditions, you can have that.
If you want built-in roof rack attachment points, you get that.
If you want AWD, you can have that.
If you live in a RHD country, you can have a RHD car.
If you want both AWD and RHD, you can have that (some premium marques make you choose either/or).
If you want quality and fit & finish that beats even Mercedes in consumer surveys (and extensive customization as well), you can have that.
If you want rear seats for the kids, you have it.
If you want to use those rear seats (as well as the standard front passenger seat) for child seats, with upper and lower anchoring points, you have that.
If you want winter tires specifically engineered for your car's handling attributes and officially approved as such, you can have that.


If you want those things in the Corvette, you're SOL. So...how is the Corvette a substitute if you want/need any/all of those things? Sorry, but I don't see how a Corvette takes the place or function of an AWD Carrera taking 3 kids to school in inclement conditions, nor a family trip snowboarding.

How can the modifications be the basis for comparison, when I'm not comparing a modified Porsche to a modified Corvette? The common denominator in both scenarios is what you're likely to encounter: In both cases, its an extremely low likelihood of a stock Porsche owner (or even a stock C7 owner, for that matter), driving his car in a manner that perhaps only .01% of the driving population will ever encounter.

I would also add that if you want a very unique feel of a rear-engined car, which some have described as more like skiing than driving a normal car, in the way that it pivots around the rear hips, then you get that.

Based on some recent tests, if you want a car that can more predictably and satisfyingly be driven to its limits, without the intervention of electronic safety nets, for a more natural and intuitive experience, then you get that.

...........and here I thought we were comparing it to the 911 base model, or in the case of this thread per se, the Cayman S. Silly me! Where the heck did the Carrera AWD comparison come from? Seems like yet another attempt at misdirection in an attempt to prevail....................

To answer your question - it doesn't, and isn't intended to. If you want those functionalities you really ought to buy a Cayenne - or a Tahoe:D. How the heck are you going to take a family trip snowboarding in a AWD Carrera? Those back seats must be a lot bigger than they actually measure! Lets see - two teenagers, boards, boots, baggage - sure, that'll fit in a Carrera.........................:lol:

I will give you that the Corvette apparently cannot compete on the "functionality" of those who need the ego gratification and perceived status of the Porsche nameplate.
Other than that, I believe it is now an even trade off between the base models of the two marques.

........and yet the C&D comparison test specifically states that the Corvette is more stable at the limit.

Porsche roof rack system...everything except the teenagers fits on the roof.

You said a "family trip" Where does the family fit? :rofl:

I don't think I said "family trip", but the family of four goes inside the car. All the other stuff goes in the trunk and on the roof.

Heck!
 

With all that money you would save, even in MPG, you could rent or buy a Range Rover! :yesnod: Again! :lol:

Unlike the 918 efficiency comes cheap in the Chevy, and adding more efficiency! :woohoo:

:rock:

911 base model has much of that baked into it as well; a lot of those things are not options. They come standard. The base Corvette doesn't, and I suspect the same will hold true for the top of the line Corvette. You were talking about back seats, so I assumed you were talking about the 911. If you were talking about the Cayman, why would you even mention back seats?
The Cayman/Boxster has much of that baked in as well (minus the rear seats and AWD of course). I don't have to attempt to "prevail." Porsche already builds that stuff into their cars.

It doesn't and isn't intended to...yet the 911 is. Therefore, the Corvette isn't substituting it. Neither a Cayenne nor Tahoe will be anything as sporty as a 911 or Corvette, so you can throw that out as irrelevant. Believe it or not, some people have bowls and plates of different sizes; not just small or large. The high take rate of AWD in alpine areas of Europe (nearly 100% in Austria and Switzerland, and even 90% in the Netherlands) suggest that this added utility is desirable, even though Panameras and Tahoes are available.

Much of that stuff fits on the integrated roof rack:
http://www.zen217146.zen.co.uk/Ski997.jpg

Or any number of OEM or aftermarket cargo boxes:
http://static1.businessinsider.com/i...11-roofbox.jpg

Convertibles are not exempt from this added utility either.
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4122/5...4cf62eb2_z.jpg

Here's a guy who took his family for a 1000-mile, 18-hour road trip from England to the Nurburgring for some laps:
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...rsche_911_c4s/

Obviously, if you live near ski slopes or such, you won't have to drive that far. But in a 911, it can be done. In a Corvette...nope.

Of course you want to ignore everything that the Porsches offer. That makes your claim that there is a substitute all the more credible. Reality does not work that way.

That was in reference to the slalom test. Which is very important...if you spend your time dodging cones spaced at precisely even distances. Not very many people do. They didn't say it was more stable on the track nor on the road. Motor Trend did feel the 911 was more stable on the track.

tux, are you suggesting that the point of buying and driving a sports car is to replicate magazine 10/10ths lap times, or would you say that having fun is a greater priority?

Ice!
 

I'm going to take an $150k Porsche out when there may also be ice. Nothing handles ice!:thumbs:

What is abundantly clear? That you lied? That instead of debating the car-related topics of a thread discussion, you have to derail it into an asinine, personal and petty debate about thread posters simply because you have nothing of value to contribute? You didn't call me on that. I called you on that. I've been more than civil enough in my discussions with you (and others) in these threads. It's a bloody shame you can't have the common decency to reciprocate.

Yes, how dare any of us Corvette loving goons question someone who has memorized as many car magazines and sales brochures as you obviously have.

Keep it up Pal, maybe someday you or your alter ego "Notch" will be able to convert one of us to your beloved Porsche.

From their behind-the-scenes video.
"Today we're at Willow Springs. We've got a C7 Corvette and six of its biggest competitors."

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/7969/imfr.jpg
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7549/1gry.jpg

"That Cayman has a balance unlike any other car in the group, in terms of its combination of steering response and effort, power, brake metering. It is just so well balanced. It's way down on power relative to some of the other cars in the group, but honestly, if I were going to a track day* with any of these cars, with cars this powerful, I think I'd be fine in that car. It's that capable, that much more rewarding. As you come up to and surpass its limits, there's a ton of comfort there. It's a remarkable automobile."

There may be a substitute for that Porsche in those particular aspects, but it's not in this group.
*And track days are not always about setting faster times than the next guy. Some organizations actively discourage it or ban it altogether. For practical purposes, most owners aren't going to fling their $70k pride and joy at 10/10ths the way journalists do with manufacturers' vehicles; those testers sign waivers or contractual documents with proof of indemnity, whereas most car insurance policies won't cover track activities (especially if it's competitive in nature).

Just another example of what Guibo pointed out in post #281.

Why would you question us rather than, say, debating the car-related topics at hand? Is it because you have nothing of value to add?
Not here to convert. Just to discuss. If you've been paying careful attention to the C7 product development, it's obvious GM engineers value those subjective qualities that make a Porsche a Porsche. If there's any conversion going on, it's at the corporate level.

Revisiting this a bit...

Speaking of one such editor/owner, here's Evo's Harry Metcalfe:

"That evening I get chatting with some of the people who have put down a deposit for a Huayra. It seems it's the incredible attention to detail you get with Pagani that attracted them initially, plus the fact the Huayra is a fair bit cheaper than today's special-edition Zondas (close to 500k GBP cheaper in round terms).
One buyer from Hong Kong explains that he went for the Huayra simply because he fell in love with the interior. 'All supercars have incredible performance today but when I'm sitting in traffic in my Enzo, I look at the interior and think it's rubbish,' he says. 'In the Huayra, every time I see it, the more I love it. There's nothing else like it in the world. The outside is for others to enjoy; as an owner, it's the inside that I want to make me feel like I'm in a special car.'
This thing feels Veyron-quick, yet it's so much more exciting, thanks mainly to the surreal, jet-like soundtrack...inside, this car sounds incredible. In the Huayra there's even more performance than the Zonda and the comfort levels are in a different league, but it's the overwhelming sensory experience you get when the engine erupts and that wall of noise hits that you'll remember forever.
Horacio Pagani knows better than anyone what people want from a new supercar, and during the planning stage for the Huayra he realised that it is no longer sheer performance that sells a supercar, it's more to do with enhancing the experience."

"It's not often you get to spend 3 days observing different generations of Ferraris from such close quarters, but chasing some of the early cars and watching them teeter on the edge of adhesion through the endless twists and turns was fascinating, as was following later cars like the 275 GTB and Daytona, where you could tell their drivers were having to work pretty hard to keep them on the boil.
With the latest models like the 458 and 599 GTO, drivers were having an easier time of it. Paddle cog-swapping, carbon brakes and monumental horsepower all meant the speed along the route was no longer limited by the car so much as by the driver's self-control. Some experienced owners I spoke to admitted to mixed emotions, as they felt they couldn't reach their car's limits as they could in previous generations of Ferraris.
For me, the big worry is that while today's Ferraris perform brilliantly on the Nordschleife or super-smooth roads, on the knurled, potholed tarmac found on the Mille Miglia - and elsewhere in the real world - it's clear that their circuit-honed dynamics come at the expense of decent ground clearance, good visibility and compact dimensions."

"Alone among motoring magazines, we steer clear of race-tracks when it comes to assessing the best drivers' cars of the year. Not because we don't like circuit driving, but because it often gives a distorted picture. There's only one place to properly assess road cars, and that's on the road."
--eCOTY 2009
MEET THE JUDGES
"I'm looking for power that matches grip; detailed, intuitive steering and strong anchors; perfection in every field! The best cars will also instil a burning desire for ownership, even if that means sticking one of my relatives on Ebay."
--Roger Green
"I want a bit of dynamic magic. The feeling the chassis engineers nailed the important bits - the balance, steering response and adjustability - and had time left to absolutely nail the ride and provide a detailed stream of feedback."
--John Barker
"The winner will be the car that sustains intrigue, fascination and satisfaction the longest. It has to feel special from the moment you fire it up, has to hook you in the first bend, and linger in the mind long after you've walked away."
--David Vivian
"I want a car that feels exciting even when I'm not driving balls-out or gathering it up with a dab of oppo (which obviously I do 90 per cent of the time). And that can be as much about the noise it makes as the g forces"
--Peter Tomalin
"As Shrek said to Donkey, it's all about layers. Along with performance you've got to have tactility, finesse, character and, even more importantly, interaction."
--John Hayman
"The winner should be not only the car that best advances the art of the truly pleasurable driving machine within its category, but also the car I'd most want to drive again and again for the buzz it gives. It must be properly usable."
--John Simister
"It's the car that leaves me aching to drive it again that wins."
--Harry Metcalfe
"Speed, power, noise - yep, love all those and more, but I want a car that underpins the more superficial elements with communication, a sense of flow, balance and engagement. And I also want to get out feeling utterly exhilarated."
--Ollie Marriage
"I want the best blend of excitement and technical excellence. I want a car to devour any road, but involve me in the process."
--Chris Harris

Now I know some of you are asking: Who would take Harry Metcalfe's words anymore seriously than any of our? He's "just a journalist." Go ahead. Ask it. :D

The Cayman S is Raw!
 

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st-have-page-2

Right, no help there!(And <3000lb with ~200lb less torque!:rofl:) Why!:rofl:

:rock: