Streetlegal 300 MPH Z06 ?
 

LPE TTC6Z vette with 1300 RWHP @ 23 lbs boost may be the car to do it. The car has already done the standing mile in 25 sec / 226 MPH on street tires and 21 lbs boost.

Check out Lingenfelter.com for details.

Vehicle's owner: NORM KOERNER [player extrodinare']

HAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!

300mph? Not a prayer in hell.

.

What it can do and what it does are two different things but yes that car could run 300 mph with that type of HP and ofcourse in a perfect world.

:iagree: :iagree: No way! If I wasn't so lazy, I'd try to figure out how many horses it would take the Z06 to hit 300. Sufice it to say, more than you can stuff into it. Nice thought but...

I just saw a card on this car yesterday. It runs something like 1200 HP with the twin turbos. It's possible but improbable. It would be nice to take to Bonneville and see for sure though.

Whether the car can do it or not, it is not street legal because it does not have factory catalysts.

oh no.....this will stir a pot...:lol:

hehe

I will give it a few hours before someone asks "the question".....

:rofl:

At 300 MPH the paint would start to peel..............from your forehead!:willy:

Listen ... during tuning they hit 1518 HP and 1400 lbs TQ @ 28 lbs boost on smaller turbos than the car currently runs.

So do your calculations ... an tell us what it would take to hit 300 with the Z's aeros ?

I say with over 1500 power ... the Z has a fair chance to set sail to the liftoff mark.

Dragcars/funnycars hit 330 or so in 1/4 with 2000 plus power.

I think the generally accepted number is something like 4500hp. The motors make more power, something like 7000 (guesstimated), but most of the power is not used due to clutch setup.

http://www.nhra.com/streetlegal/funfacts.html

Bubble bubble toil and trouble, Katech's here to stir some trouble...
Ok, my Halloween spirit is kinda weak.

You'll likely need around 2000HP to achieve that speed.
Thats if the panels dont rip out first. then your cd increases, more panels will fly, then you may fly because your car's aerodynamic stability is gone, and you'll see bright lights followed by darkness :leaving:

Top Fuel make closer to 7,000 horsepower.

A Gale Banks car went 290 something with a twin turbo big block in a firebird i believe. It had way in excess of 2000hp I think. I'll see if I can find the details.

It was a porpose built Boneville car.

By the way that LPE vette mentioned above is at the Michelin booth at SEMA right now. Except for the bulge in the hood you wouldn't know it was anything special beyond a Z06.

These cars aren't set up for top end performance, just explosive power delivery over a very short period of time.

That said, these HP numbers aren't exactly miraculous.

There are micro engines out there running on nitromethane that put out 2.5HP. (.21ci. no mechanics, extremely simple 2 stroke, I'm cheating )

Thats like the LS7 putting out 3000HP ( 2 vs 4 stroke).

Street legality is a big strain on the HP numbers :ack:

From Lingenfelter:

http://www.lingenfelter.com/Lingenfe...06ZO6TTBGB.htm

0-200 mph in 18.34 seconds on 93 octane pump gas. Standing mile in 25.12 seconds at 226.25.


1,100 HP rear wheel on 93 octane
1,300 HP rear wheel on race gas 23 psi boost



Based on horsepower and drag of the vehicle. calculated top speed of roughly 300 MPH!

here is some more Banks stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krEp5grhYlk

http://www.gtasourcepage.com/galebanksturbogta.html

Well, I can draw from personal experience here. I got my Katech Z over 200 mph on a flat concrete hwy in the Mojave desert (whitnessed) with a slight cross wind. I would guess less that 6 knotts.

The car became very stable, with the exception of a slight wander (I believe it was the verticle diamond cuts in the road surface that caused it) I had total control. I WISHED I would have glanced at the tach to see where my rpms where, but at 200+, things go by you very fast. The car had more to give. Not really sure how much more, but I believe 215 to 220 mph would have been a very real possiblility.

Tommy

200 to 250 is something...
250 to 300 is something else.

I think the most gains can be relized through aero tweaking beyond 200mph. The power requirements vary big time depending on the object you're trying to propel to 300mph.
A corvette may take only 1.5kHP but a Bus would likely take around 7k. Dont underestimate wind resistance!

Veyron has 1001hp and does about 253mph. I would imagine based on aero, it takes exponential HP to increase top speed, so 300mph in a street car might take 2000hp or more?

Isn't there some stats on the Salt Flat classes for stock type cars top speed?

The faster you go, the more mother nature tries to hold you back. Aerodynamic drag increases exponentially with speed. It takes the Bugatti Veyron 250hp to hit 150mph. To get the next 100mph (250mph), it takes an additional 750hp.

Based on my Car calculator for the Z06, you would need approximately an additional 900 horsepower (give or take) at the rear wheels to make it to 300 mph (presuming the car stays on the ground, doesn't fly apart, yada, yada, yada...)

So what does that mean at the crank?

Maybe the answer is in the torque, not so much the horse power.

I have semi rigs that only put out 600 horses, but have 1,850 ft.lbs. of torque.

Correct.

When the discussion of extreme top speed arises, most people become fixated on the power/torque output of the motor when AERODYNAMICS is crucial :yesnod:

The Corvette body's shape is not capable of 300 mph without MAJOR structural changes to improve CD, decrease drag, raise downforce, and increase rigidity (lest we forget that a tire capable of 300 mph friction increases and sidewall dexterity would need to be created).

In short . . . you could make all the monstrous horsepower necessary, probably well north of 2000 bhp, but the Corvette would most likely lift or be ripped apart from the wind shear before it returned to Earth.

Even if it is possible...would you really want to go 300MPH in that car...tire blow out...lift..ect...I am sure the odds for something to go wrong is very high...

LPE / John :sadangel: tried to set a record with a stock bodied car at 300 MPH he got close in the upper 290's so it can be done. Not sure on the power he had.

You guys make it seem like 250mph+ is "dream land" and thats cars will fly apart and need 5,000bhp - take a look at some of the 250mph jalopies that run at Bonnieville ;)

It looks like all you need is a decent V8, some smooth sheet metal, a couple rolls of duct tape and an old picku[ truck as a pusher - hehe

ya........not happening

ya........not happening

All the horse in the world cant beat physics

SORRY JASON,THE CAR DOES HAVE CATS WHEN WE RUN IT ON THE STREET AND IS STREET LEGAL.............WHAT POWER LEVELS HAS KATECH MADE WITH A TWIN TURBO LS-7 ENGINE???????? I DONT RECALL SEEING ANY.THANX!.................NORM :D:thumbs:

I believe Tommy has been 200 MPH. How many others have? I was clocked at Daytona on the back going into turn three in 1990 in a Camaro at 228 MPH (Did not use the stupid bus stop). It not only takes a few good size balls but you have to be a little nuts! You guys can have those 250+ MPH runs. Mine are not that big and with age they have srunk! ;)

The biggest obtacle to hitting 200 mph in only 18 seconds is spinning the tires. I cannot imagine a car able to accelerate that fast actually hooking up without all wheel drive. I'm curious as to what tires it had. I think it was Road & Track magazine that couldn't get the 770 HP Lingenfelter to hook up in a test earlier this year. The 1/4 mile et was actually worse than a Z06.

Its the tyres and the clever boost control/traction control LPE employs that allow fo rthe insane launch speeds.

That car is a badass car through and through. A friend of mine was the photographer/videographer for the record runs - and he said in person that car is out of this world.. literally.

Norm - I love it :)

Since we're kinda all preaching to each other... let me toss in my pretty penny :)

There are very many forces at work at such high speeds.
Sometimes a LOT of work goes into things that look worthless.
"Jalopies" will get you killed! I'm not saying that it takes money to go fast (ok wait - it does :rofl: ) but there are very many things to consider.

For example:
Without a "weighted" front to "lead" the car at high speeds, second order aerodynamic forces can upset the balance at high speeds and suddenly you'll be going sideways at 250Mph. Not cool!

Sometimes you'll see these "unexplained" wrecks on TV during these high speed runs. A lot of times its aero related, or something they forgot to account for.

It takes a lot to go 250+ (relatively) SAFELY. Anyone can slap a big engine on a bike and go fast.

Woah. I stand corrected. I meant no disrespect Norm. We have a great relationship with Lingenfelter and my post was not meant to imply anything competitive.

My most sincere apologies,

MUST have Cats for a street car. Deal with it.
 

Hate to go back to this but Jason is right. No Cat's = NOT a street car. I saw that standing mile thing with the Hennesey Viper and the Veyron and the LPE car and how they were all street cars. The Viper had no catalytic converters, it wasn't a street car. I love all the people who think this is a nothing issue, come out here to CA and when the cop looks under your car and impounds it when he doesn't see them see how trivial it is. They are now giving all the cops classes on how to look for these mods and to hit the car with the book if they don't meet the specs.

It's silly as hell, ok, them impounding tons of Honda blingmobiles for having colored intake pipes is funny, but beyond that its kind of scary. It's like C.A.R.B. when the cop is looking at your car, frightening to have someone who doesn't really know what he's looking at about to make a decision that is going to cost you a lot of potential time and grief and money.

JASON,NOT A PROBLEM!KATECH HAS AN OUTSTANDING REPUTATION BUILDING WINNING BULLET PROOF ENGINES! :cheers: :thumbs:

Well look who has spoken!!!! I guess the Alley isn't providing enough entertainment for you!!


Jk Norm. You have the baddest Z06 in the country (least in my opinion) From talking to Jeff over emails its really amazing what you have done with the car. :thumbs:

I'm sure the car is badass, but what the launch control and traction control are doing is limiting the hp getting to the ground - which in my opinion, still makes it impossible to hit 200 in 18 seconds without all wheel drive, or some serious slicks on the car.

Hey, Norm! Thanks for chiming in. You've got an amazing car, for sure!!:thumbs: :yesnod:

But, I'm gonna play the devils' advocate here - since the post mentioned a possible 300 MPH, do YOU plan on trying to actually make that happen with that vehicle? :bigears

If so, what's the plan?

Thanks.....

-Jim

VINDICATION ....THANK YOU! IT HAS BEEN A JOURNEY TO SAY THE LEAST.........THE REALLY AMAZING PART IS A COMPANY CALLED LINGENFELTER PERFORMANCE ENGINEERING AND ALL THE TALENTED PEOPLE THAT WORK THERE!:thumbs: :cheers:

:thumbs:

IMSA finale of Nov 30th 1975. I am on the banking at Daytona about 185mph, and looking down the back straight at a small white dot in my rear view mirror. A few seconds later as I drift up on the north banking, there is a blast of sound and a blast of air as John Greenwood passes between me and the wall at two hundred fifty two (252) miles per hour

JIM ,WE HAVE SOME OTHER FISH TO FRY BEFORE WE ATTEMPT ANY SALT FLAT RUNS................LIKE 255 MPH IN A MILE..........THANX! NORM :thumbs:

RC45 THANX! :thumbs:

Just because it has cats doesn't make it street "Legal" Unless every part used has a carb cert. its not really street legal...And I know the stock fuel system cannot support that HP and if you alter the stock FFS fuel system(which they did) in any way you are breaking federal emission laws which = not street legal...:lol:

The pot has been stirred and its ready. :lol:



Let me put on my seatbelt. :leaving:

:lol:

Quote from Lingenfelter's web site...

Custom 16 injector fabricated intake manifold==not street legal..:lol:
Custom LPE twin fuel pump fuel supply system==not street legal..:lol:
XFC auxiliary fuel controller for additonal 8 injectors==Not street legal...:lol:

Shall I go on...:rofl:

Still a stupid fast car though...:thumbs:

That is one stupid fast Vette and not anywhere close to street legal that is for sure:thumbs:

LPE posted the video ;)

Norm- got pictures/videos of the ride for us forum brothers :D

Jason, a Nissan Altima has a hard time hitting 150 with 250 HP and and is extremely lighter than the bugatti, I dont beleive those "top gear" stats, whereever they got them from...

A Nissan Altima does not have the drag coefficient that a Bugatti Veyron does. I believe it. The Bugatti is much more slippery. It even has a gauge on the back that tells you how much horsepower you're making...however accurate that may be.

you see what you started? :lol:

The tires used where standard production Michelin Pilot Sport PS2, mounted on HRE 840R series wheels. :cool:

That would be nice .... doing in the mile what it takes the Bug V-Car 3 miles to achieve.

I'd guess 255 would set the record for streetlegal cars by a wide margin.

:thumbs:

Good luck on the 255mph run ....I'm confident you'll hit that # for sure.

Your car is amazing and LPE and your car are one of the few that is leading the way for us Z06 owners that are intrested in serious performance upgrade for our cars.

Just curious on the 226mph run what was the MPH and time at the 1/4 mile. I thoughly understand if you don't want to disclose that info but I'm dying to know being that I want to TT my Z06 and I like hearing from someone that reallly has one instead of speculating times...and opinions on forums.

:thumbs:

300 mph?

Oh and at 160 mph, a 747 has . . .

This is what would happen . . .

Hey you can have a car like Norm's too! Just call LPE. Expect not to have your car for months and months to do all the R and D. Listen to everything they tell you to do and spend and make sure you don't get a shakey hand when your writing the check.

In fairness, I don't think Norm (or Lingenfelter) will just come out and tell all his/their secrets after all this time, effort, money, and patience to do a build like this.

Its this that makes projects truely special.

Correct! I never said I was the fastest! My wife has a picture of me at about 200 MPH going into turn three at Daytona on the roof. Everything is going by very fast in the photo. One thing you can see very clear is the Goodyear name on the tires. Why? Because I had my foot on the brakes! It did not help. Lucky for me the car started to take the turn and turned enough to go all the way through turn three breaking into pieces. I was so sore it took about 20 minutes to get out of bed the next morning. I bumped a guy named Marvin Panch. He came out all right but my car turned (probably my inability to control it) and when the wind got under the 8" rear spoiler the fun began.

Tommy and you guys can have the 250+ MPH rides. I am now CHICKEN!:ack:

Hey you can't blame a guy for trying :lol:

I totally understand, my son and I are doing a joint project with another brand car and a performance shop that will be somewhat of a shocker to that car brand community when it is announced later next spring.

I have talked to LPE a couple of times.

I have a deposit on the upcoming ZR-1... so I'll have to wait and see the specs on the car when is released and decide if I reallly want the car or if my dealer can even can get me one! I'll go from there...and if I keep my Z06 then it's off to LPE or Katech. A hard choice for sure.



:cheers:

Jim my friend, you have bigger bells than I will ever have. After I hit my 200+ run, my girlfriend looked at me and said "You are white as a ghost"... and I'm Mexican!

Add the friction roof element and... damn. :crazy:

That reminds me... I gotta rent 'Stroker Ace' again.

They should get bigger as you get older. The older you get the less you have to lose;)

Do some homework.

Funny cars have 2000 plus horsepower???????????? Try again. They had 2,000 HP thirty years ago. Try 7 - 9,000 horsepower on nitro. Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funny_Car (among others). Also, the Z's aero package was designed to work at the limits of the car in stock or near stock condition. The aero package for 300 mph would have to be very different to prevent something spectacular from happening. Look at the C6R for clues. 300 miles per hour is dead serious territory, and shouldn't be tried at home.:D

You wouldn't need the same amount of horsepower though. A dragster has to do it in a 1/4 mile so it needs a lot. Trying to do it in a Vette though???? Scary if not impossible. I wonder what the gearing and tire math work out to be to hit 300MPH at 7200 RPM....It would probably prove to be a dog on the street because of gears....in this fantasy world of course.

You would have to reset your watch every time you got out of the car. ;)

It takes 500bhp to make 200mph. So 500*(1.5)^3 = 1687.5bhp

F = 0.5*Cd*air density*A*v^2

P = Fv = 0.5*Cd*air density*A*v^3

Increase v by 1.5 times (200 to 300), increase P by 1.5^3.

It's been done anyway:


1939 Mercedes-Benz T-80 Weltrekordwagen: The T-80 was an attempt at breaking speed records and demonstrate German engineering supremacy. Officially backed by the Nazi regime, the car was never tested because of the outbreak of World War II in September of that same year. It was originally planned that the car would be driven on the straight Autobahn near Dessau in 1940 at projected speeds of 600 km/h (373 mph). To obtain such speeds, the T-80 utilized the largest Daimler-Benz aircraft engine in existence, the DB-603: a mammoth 44,522cc V12 that produced 3,000-horsepower. Ferdinand Porsche designed the T-80. It was sheer luck that the car survived World War II.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i3...0/SMALL_68.jpg

I don't give a damn what you are, my friend, you are my friend. I remember being a driving instructor at Mid America Raceway in Wentzville, MO. Before a guys first mock race the guy's girl friend asked me if I ate a lot before a race. I told her no because if you were injured it was a lot worse if they put you to sleep on a full stomach (guess how I know?). Then I asked why? She said because she had fixed five sandwiches for her and her boy friend and he had eaten all of them before 11:00 AM. I just laughed. It effects us all different ways. Driving at speed is a learned skill. The more you do it the eaiser it is. Finally everything seems to be in slow motion and it becomes easier. I don't know why. Conclusion, keep doing it and it becomes easier. And, Tommy, you are no ghost.

Keep hammering that Katech animal. The more you do the more you will like it and the better you will get. ;)

John, some how mine have shrunk! :yesnod: I have more to lose now than ever but prostate cancer slowed me down about eight years ago. I still fight it and it will get me some day. When I retired in 1994 I told my wife I would not race competitively again. I had received a shoulder injury in 1993 at MIS and I have it today. My wife told me it was God's way of telling me to quit so I did. Having said that, I have had mine up to a little over 200 MPH according to the heads up display and I must say it was fun and the car handled well. I don't plan it again any time soon.

Just call me "little ones!":rofl:

possible
 

Callaways Sledgehammer car did 254 with 'only' 850hp almost 15 years ago. So nearly double the power in a slipperyer car to get 46 more mph. Sounds possible although I know the resistance increases by squares or however you say it.

with 250 HP you could "cruise" at 150mph in a veyron, thats what the gauge would show, but reaching that speed would be a battle itself in that heavyass bug given the power was limited to 250 HP, I think this is what they really meant. I know the Veyron is more slippery, but don't forget how huge that thing really is, infact if you read a little more about what Bugatti had to say about its design, they said that they designed the car FIRST, then tried to work the aerodynamics around the car's basic design and not the otherway around.

if that concept is true, then the Z06 can cruise at topspeed ~ 205 MPH in 6th gear and only needs 350 RWHP to do so.

how? 6th gear, 205MPH = 4350 RPMs ( a Z06 generates 350 rwhp at that rpm) I know of people who tried full throttle cruising at 200MPH in 6th, no drop in speed yet no gain (obviously).

I've personally seen this car do amazing things. The launch isn't particularly impressive, but the 70-200 mph dance is a sight to behold... covering so much distance, running through the gears faster and faster :-D

that's crazy...how much do those car's weigh?

Nobody that's gone 200+ mph in a car has "little ones"!:eek: :thumbs:

:withstupid: 150-160 is the best these bells have had to toll..... :flag:

:withstupid: Yeah 2000 plus another 4000 hp. :lolg:

the first stock-bodied production car over 300 mph was in 1999. It's a 368 ci. in. Pontiac.

http://www.kugelkomponents.com/bonne...onneville.html

"If you’re going to go 300 mph in a stock-bodied production car at Bonneville, the car of choice is a Pontiac Firebird," said Joe Kugel. "Out of all the production cars, it probably has the lowest drag as far as aerodynamics are concerned, and at 300 mph, this Firebird has to be the most stable vehicle that’s ever been built."

I found this to be a rather interesting quote from the linked article.

I've personally been above +190 mph more than a dozen times in my Firehawk and the one thing I was most impressed with was the stability at those velocities; even around sharp banks (relative to those velocities).

I fervently agree that weight is gravely important: my car weighs somewhere in the upper neighborhood of ~35xx lb. After all, downforce from aerodynamics is just trying to fabricate weight at extreme velocities in order to increase stability at said velocities. There is no better "downforce" than what came with the car stock; curb weight :thumbs:

Untrue. Why do you think so?

What is untrue?

if you were injured it was a lot worse if they put you to sleep on a full stomach




clearer?:)

:iagree:

been there... I wrecked my Harley a couple of years ago after a bbq. They put me under. Not pretty when I woke up.

Specifically what are you referring to? If it is the anesthesia itself, a full stomach isn't an issue. A Rapid Sequence Induction is employed to ensure no aspiration of stomach contents occurs. Otherwise, everything is the same. Full stomach or not, it really doesn't affect the anesthesia.

Lets see, in 1986 I had both my ankles broken in the same wreck. After a operation I was sick as hell throwing up everything I had eaten. Throwing up with two broken ankles is no fun!

In 1974 my left arm and hand was injured in a wreck at North Wilksboro and I was immediately put to sleep and when I woke up I was sick as hell and all the shaking was so painful I was crying. It lasted for about 1.5 hours.

I don't remember what happened when they put the plate in my head.

I had my prostate removed in 1999. I could not eat anything from midnight the night before and I was operated on at 6:00 PM. I had no issues.

I could go on but you should get the idea. I am not a doctor and don't know why but given the choice I will get cut up and put to sleep without anything in my stomach.

Jim?

http://home.nordnet.fr/~ececcarelli/...dollar_man.jpg

:yesnod:

Did you tell the anesthesiologist about your tendancy to have nausea post operatively?

Times have changed in anesthesia. A lot of the agents formerly used caused significant nausea and vomitting. Current medicines are much less likely to cause these problems, and there are several medicines that can be given intraoperatively to prevent the incidence of your issues.

That being said - it is much safer NOT to eat before elective surgery (aspiration risk). Hopefully you never have to experience this uncomfortable incident again.:cheers:

yes. I wasn't sure what you ment. However current medicines still cause people to vomit...

Tell the anesthesiologist? I never even saw one. When you have just had your ass busted there are not a lot of things you think about. I recently had my colon checked and I was up and out within 30 minutes so I agree times have changed. Where you you 30 years ago when I needed you? :rofl:

You mean $0.06 don't you Tommy?

So does chinese food. Some people are just prone to Nausea/vomitting - there are many medicines to counteract this.:thumbs:

In diapers sh!tting myself!!!:leaving:

:rofl:

Dude - where did you get that pic? I would love to have a shirt like that for my new nephew! Where can I find it?:cheers:

:lol:

I agree, but for some people (like my wife) nothing really works.:ack:

They turned it up to at least 920 HP for the record run and it had relatively narrow tires (less drag). I for one don't think the new Z could pull it off unless they squeeze a LOT more power out of it, 50 mph is a big deal from 200 to 250, but from 250 to 300 mph, it's HUGE! Various mega HP Viper TTs have definitely been highly limited by aero, the Vette has an advantage there, but 300 mph is pie in the sky without major aero improvements.

All you guys are assuming that this car has completely stock Aero and is maxed out at 1500hp. Neither of which is true. It made 1500hp with smaller turbos then are on there now. Both transmission and differential gearing has also been changed to better suit the intended purpose. (2.73 Differential and revised trans ratios). Even with this gearing the car is still boost limited in the lower gears to help with traction.

You can get the spec sheet and video from the website here;

http://www.lingenfelter.com/Lingenfe...06ZO6TTBGB.htm

Make no mistake about it, this is not just alot of hp in a stock car. This is an engineered piece built for a specific purpose. I congratulate Norm and LPE on pushing the envelope of Corvette performance. Keep up the good work guys!

Jersey

The car most surely did accomplish 0-200mph in just over 18 seconds on DOT tires, and there is GPS data to prove it. And yes, it was boost limited in the lower gears but the driver managed to get the job done. Definetly not an easy task when you are dealing with this kind fo power.

Jersey

So what makes these items not street legal?

16 injector manifold? Ah, ZR1 did this back in 1990. As long as it still sealed and goes through a purge cannister, its still legit. There is no limit in the number of fuel injectors you can have. Look at some of the new sport bikes that have dual injectors per cylinder, one for low speed/low load and the other comes in at high speed/high load conditions.

Dual fuel pump module. As long as it still a sealed system, has a functioning vapor return line of the smae material as the factory piece, and the purge system functions as stock, it's fine.

Auxilary fuel controller for extra injectors? Nothing illegal about that. There is no law that dictates that the injectors need to be controlled by the factory ECU. Look at the import turbo kits that are CARB approved. All of them use piggyback controllers.

Do they all have a CARB EO number? Probably not but there is nothing stopping them from getting CARB approved if they were so inclined.

Jersey