Originally Posted by skybolt31
(Post 1563480204)
Did the snow melt yet??
-- Joe |
ZF6 swap
OK well.. I dont get it. Dont people put the zf6 with the standared L-98 motor all the time, The L-98 also comes with a 700r4. and I have one in my car now with the zz4?. and the car That the ZR1 transmission came out of was a show car with a 502 create motor. ITs a black tag transmission. IS there any way i can put this tranny to my ZZ4? And if so do you think the drive shaft was changed for the 4+3 to 700R4 swap that was done or is it the same?
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Originally Posted by PhatNerd
(Post 1563497276)
OK well.. I dont get it. Dont people put the zf6 with the standared L-98 motor all the time, The L-98 also comes with a 700r4. and I have one in my car now with the zz4?. and the car That the ZR1 transmission came out of was a show car with a 502 create motor. ITs a black tag transmission. IS there any way i can put this tranny to my ZZ4? And if so do you think the drive shaft was changed for the 4+3 to 700R4 swap that was done or is it the same?
Either that or replace the input shaft. :sadangel: |
Originally Posted by Dominic Sorresso
(Post 1563497609)
Just because its a black tag doesn't make it a ZR-1 ZF. A ZR-1 trans can be used on a small block, but the shifter is going to be 1" further. GM used the longer input shaft for the ZR because the ZR motor was 1" shorter than the standard SBC. The bellhousing for a ZR-1 is also longer for the spacing. So there are 2 versions of the ZF-6 for the C4. You need the version for the regular 89-96 C4s, not the ZR-1. I put a black tag in my 84 so I have some experience with this.
Either that or replace the input shaft. :sadangel: |
Phat,
Go to this website, www.zfdoc.com. Bill Boudreau is very good and very helpful. He knows ZFs like the back of his hand and should be able to give you the info you need. |
Originally Posted by anesthes
(Post 1562950179)
Did you read the link to the swap how-to ?
http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/f-car-t5/ Splines are same. Use a D44 driveshaft if you have a D36 rear. Cut and modify the shifter. Buy the bracket. Bolt and go. -- Joe |
Hey Anesth you are a beast....I will be using your tutorial and doing the swap on my 90....Any pitfals because of the difference in year???
Hope you can drive it soon:flag: |
Originally Posted by stifeout
(Post 1563592320)
Hey Anesth you are a beast....I will be using your tutorial and doing the swap on my 90....Any pitfals because of the difference in year???
Hope you can drive it soon:flag: Good luck and let me know how it works out. -- Joe |
a little warning....
I love the robust nature of this swap , I really do. Its exciting to see a group of people all chip in and try to make something work. As most know here I've rebuilt the 4+3 for years, sold parts to GM for these, was a rebuilder for GM and dealerships many years and sold my tooling and hard parts to Brian of SK speed years ago.
The warning is the following: The 4+3 transmission assembly was prone to cracking the mid section bearing plate on the bottom due to case flex imparted by loads of the C-Beam. Not to burst anyone's bubble here, but you should be concerned about the loads you are expecting these very thin T5 tails to take. What I would worry about is the shift rail binding due to flex as well as the rear bushing wiping out due to case flex. You may want to secure the mount pad to something else to make your flex path shorter. Don't forget that Camaro T5 had a mount to the frame having the T5 float on the back could be a potential problem. Most of the time when that gimmick is tried out you will find the upper ears where the tail attaches to the case snap. Carry on. Paul www.5speeds.com |
Paul,
Very interesting. And you bring up some great points. So I would imagine that the ZF was built with those issues taken into consideration. Correct? |
Originally Posted by Dominic Sorresso
(Post 1563674054)
Paul,
Very interesting. And you bring up some great points. So I would imagine that the ZF was built with those issues taken into consideration. Correct? -- Joe |
I'd be similarly curious to know if Keisler beefed up the tailshaft of their TKO swap. They rate the tranny at 500+ hp and I know there are guys on this board who thrash theirs pretty hard. The tailshaft appears to be stock TKO with an offset shifter. In fact, the bolt-on cover the TKO tailshaft has ought to make it rather weak in that area.
Atleast the T5 was designed, in some aspect, to have a mount at the tailshaft. In a Camaro, the T5 tailshaft mount takes much the same twisting force as in the C4. In my car, which will soon have a T5, I have poly engine mounts and poly diff bushings. The amount of twist should be atleast somewhat limited in this respect. I would think the force required to twist and deform the T5 tailshaft would first break my D36 rear. I suppose time will tell... |
Originally Posted by JLeatherman
(Post 1563677199)
I'd be similarly curious to know if Keisler beefed up the tailshaft of their TKO swap. They rate the tranny at 500+ hp and I know there are guys on this board who thrash theirs pretty hard. The tailshaft appears to be stock TKO with an offset shifter. In fact, the bolt-on cover the TKO tailshaft has ought to make it rather weak in that area.
Originally Posted by JLeatherman
(Post 1563677199)
Atleast the T5 was designed, in some aspect, to have a mount at the tailshaft. In a Camaro, the T5 tailshaft mount takes much the same twisting force as in the C4.
the Cbeam adapter pro street made (as you now know) bolts up in numerous spots, rather than loading just the very tail of the transmission. I think it should be fine. If you have enough power to brake T5 cases, then do one of the following: 1) Buy a few spare tail shafts 2) Consider a different transmission. Thats my 2 cents on that issue.
Originally Posted by JLeatherman
(Post 1563677199)
In my car, which will soon have a T5, I have poly engine mounts and poly diff bushings. The amount of twist should be atleast somewhat limited in this respect. I would think the force required to twist and deform the T5 tailshaft would first break my D36 rear. I suppose time will tell...
-- Joe |
Well, you are one of the trans experts 'round here Joe. I do have the power to destroy a T5 in my car (383 @ ~425 horses). Thing is, I don't race (can't afford the broken parts) and I figure as long as I keep street tires on the car I'll break traction long before I break a tranny. Not really worried either. I am curious, though, what twisted enough to allow you to break a T5 mount (soft motor mounts, driveshaft bottoming out in the yoke, etc?).
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Originally Posted by JLeatherman
(Post 1563677484)
Well, you are one of the trans experts 'round here Joe. I do have the power to destroy a T5 in my car (383 @ ~425 horses). Thing is, I don't race (can't afford the broken parts) and I figure as long as I keep street tires on the car I'll break traction long before I break a tranny. Not really worried either. I am curious, though, what twisted enough to allow you to break a T5 mount (soft motor mounts, driveshaft bottoming out in the yoke, etc?).
I wish I dynoed my 355 before I stripped the car. Thing trapped 119-120mph every pass in the 1/4, with 1.60-1.70 60 foot times. 3650 lbs with me in it. That HAD to be near 500hp. Never broke a T5 racing it. Anyhow, the thirdgen rear end has two lower control arms on the bottom, two coil springs, a panhard bar and a torque arm. The torque arm is the only thing that keeps the rear end from rotating since there is no upper control arms. It's like a third member, or a 3-link. hah. Anyway, when you give it gas, the arm pushes up on the transmission; when you downshift, the rear end attempts to rotate downward and pulls on the tailshaft. So if you hit it hard enough, the torque arm will lift on the transmission ripping the mount in two, and the transmission then hits the floor and scares the crap out of the driver if it's the first time. The torque arm is not bolted directly to the tailshaft, instead a torque arm mount is bolted to the tailshaft, and the torque arm fits through a rubber coupling in the mount. This allows the torque arm to move a little with the suspension travel (since its a live axle, not fixed like a C4). -- Joe |
I get it. So, in a way, the C4 might actually be a bit less stressful on a T5 tailshaft than an FBody?
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Originally Posted by JLeatherman
(Post 1563677839)
I get it. So, in a way, the C4 might actually be a bit less stressful on a T5 tailshaft than an FBody?
-- Joe |
Actually Joe, I have a degree in mechanical engineering ;)
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Originally Posted by JLeatherman
(Post 1563681107)
Actually Joe, I have a degree in mechanical engineering ;)
-- Joe |
Originally Posted by Dominic Sorresso
(Post 1563674054)
Paul,
Very interesting. And you bring up some great points. So I would imagine that the ZF was built with those issues taken into consideration. Correct? |
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