T56 swap
 

Has anybody swapped out their old tranny for a T56. Where did you buy your parts, what problems did you run into, How hard was it.

If you are talking about a T56 from a Camaro or Firebird, as far as I know it won't bolt up to an older engine. You can take a look at the Keisler website to get an idea of the parts needed to put a 5-speed into a C3. Not an easy or inexpensive swap.

:cheers:

Rick B.

T56 Swap
 

I have a T56 in my 76 Vette and it's the best investment I've made. I admit I didn't do the actual swap myself, I researched everything for two years and have book of material from other people that did it. I purchased a T56 out of a local trading paper, I was told it came from a 97 camaro. I checked around to several shops and transmission places and found a fairly young guy who owned his own shop and said he would be interested in doing it, but would only work on it when he had time so I had to leave it on his back rack for almost two months. I purchased the adapter plate and longer input shaft from Fortes Parts, this allowed me to use the existing mechanical clutch setup. He shortened the drive shaft and cut out the crossmember extended it out and welded it back in. (see photos) I also had him rebuild it and upgrade to the steel shift fork. I do have a GM Crate Motor in my car, but by utilizing the adapter plate you can utilize on the older 350.

My Trans $900
Rebuild, Parts, Labor and installation $1200

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...teT56006-1.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...etteT56023.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...etteT56023.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...teT56028-1.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...etteT56046.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...etteT56041.jpg

72LS1Vette is confused.

You need one from an LT1 engine (93-97) Camaro or Trans Am. You need Centerforce flywheel part number 700107 (I think) to bolt to your old engine and the new LT1 clutch setup.

Do a search, I did it. Many others have also. I did a write up some time ago.

I have looked at keisler's website they offer kits for both the T5 and T56 however they are not currently making the 6 speeds. Thanks for the pictures, gives me some ideas, only thing is I want to keep my console pretty much stock (sleeper)

You can go to Fortesparts.com to check out the adapter plate, call him if needed. If you purchase the adapter plate and extended input shaft you don't have to touch the clutch or fly wheel. The adapter plate attaches to the bellhousing and once the longer input shaft is installed you bolt up the trans to the adapter plate. My T56 did come from a 97 LT1 camaro.

As far as the shifter location, I had no choice but to alter my console but I did try to resolve that.
I know that the Viper T56 had available an offset shifter plate and looks as though it would come close to the original shifter. I ordered the shift plate for my T56 but the viper T56 was different and it wouldn't work on mine, so I returned it and purchased the offset shifter handel that is covered by the shift boot, this just moved the shifter forward enough to avoid the ebrake.

I guess I should have qualified my statement further. I believe that a T56 from a LS1 Camaro or Firebird will not bolt on to an older engine. I wasn't aware that the T56 was available on the LT1 engines.

:cheers:

Rick B.

The LS1 T56 will also bolt up, the bellhousings are all the same bolt pattern, big block or small, new block or old. The problem is that an LS1 flywheel will not bolt to a 2 piece rear main seal crank. :thumbs:

It will bolt up, you just need a conversion flywheel.

Has anyone installed the viper tranny I heard the input shaft was bigger and needs to be milled

Heres some pics .. pretty simple and easy viper core T56, with off-set McLeod shifter fits perfectly in the stock counsel.


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l1...cations044.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l1...cations028.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l1...cations013.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l1...cations010.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l1...cations009.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l1...cations006.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l1...tions005-1.jpg

"viper core T56" did you rebuild it or are you just saying it was a viper tranny? If you rebuilt it did you use viper internals or opt for the less expensive f-body/vette internals. Did you use the viper input shaft?

Its a GForce T56 6spd race tranny, viper core custom built by GForce with all their upgrades capable of withstanding 1300hp. They also make cross member brackets similar to what I have (mine was custom) they re patterned my bell housing to accommodate the T56 or you can buy one from them.

You can check them out at www.gforcetransmissions.com or www.ddperformance.com

[QUOTE=Street Shaker;1563663342]Heres some pics .. pretty simple and easy viper core T56, with off-set McLeod shifter fits perfectly in the stock counsel.
[QUOTE]

Shaker: so the shifter position does work out? and pic's of the break through in the counsel area?

if you use a T56 from a 93-97 f-body (w/LT1), the shifter is not that far from stock location.

http://www.v8spirit.com/temp/P1030076.JPG
http://www.v8spirit.com/temp/P1030079.JPG

from what I mesured, we need the shifter moved 2" left and 1.8" forward.

What yoke is everybody using with the T56 from a 93-97 f-body (w/LT1)? Is there one with caps for easy removal?
Thanks.
Pete

you need a th350/th700r4 slip yoke and you need a shorter driveshaft (for a th700r4 driveshaft is a direct fit)

:thumbs:

I used a stock modified viper trans with a viper shift, it will but the shifter back almost in the stock location. I used a lakewood bellhousing , i dont remember having to do much to the tunnel, but did mod the crossmember, it's been 2-3 yrs ago I did it

[QUOTE=techsol;1564062687][QUOTE=Street Shaker;1563663342]Heres some pics .. pretty simple and easy viper core T56, with off-set McLeod shifter fits perfectly in the stock counsel.
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l1...2-28-07048.jpg

McLoad offset shifter works perfect, its just a bolt on, they offset it to the left 3/4" and towards the rear 1" i believe

Auto conversion question
 

Anyone converted a C3 auto car to the T56? If so, what pedal and hydraulic clutch did you use?

Well Im going to put the t56 and LT1 into my car and am hoping to use the camaro pedals it looks like it will fit but you never know it might cause some problems but I'll let you know by the summer hopefully so if your not in a hurry I can help otherwise, have fun

I used the manual pedal setup from a C3 and the hydraulic clutch master from an LT1 camaro. Just made a bracket to correct the angle of the firewall.

It's easier to swap the T56 into an auto C3, the standard trans C3s have a welded in x-member which makes install impossible without cutting the x-member or pulling the engine.

auxiliry shifter
 

Has anyone used an auxiliary shifter in their car. I am using the LT1 that came with the camaro and am considering moving the engine further back (about 3in) in the car to get the more of weight over the rear. this will make using a plate to move the shifter pretty hard. I have heard of a few guys using them in fox bodies but never in a vette. any ideas? excuse my terrible drawings

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6153/39771585mr4.png

Torq.... breaks my heart , exactly what I'm doin!


Curtis.... I 've seen something where the shifter has been moved to the center shift cover but haven't seen it in person or drawn.


Torq.... any details on the mounting plate for the correct angle on the clutch cylinder?

Thanks

Yes... I used a stock Clutch and Brake Pedal I got from Keisler. I used the Camaro Clutch M/C and fabricated my own firewall mounting bracket and with reinforcement plate on the inside. The rod pinned right to the Clutch Pedal with no modifications.

http://vettetech.com/projects/c3gs/f...gs-051307e.jpg

One person has used a clutch cylinder from a 85 1-ton truck on a T56 and he says it works OK. The truck cylinder doesn't require an adapter to correct the angle like the late model F-body ones do. I have a McLeod clutch cylinder that came with my T56 but I'll probably try out a truck cylinder first. You can get them at Autozone for $50-something.

:cheers:

Rick B.

The easiest swap I believe was using 98-02 transmission from camaro or firebird. This has a longer input shaft, almost the same length as the original 4 speed that was in my 74. Then I bolted an adapter plate to my original stock bellhousing along with a new extended pilot bushing and bolt the t56 to the adapter plate. There is no change to the original stock mechanical linkage clutch. I did add a new clutchplate & throwout bearingwhile it was all apart. The shifter is back a bit further but I made an adapter to move it forward to the stock location. Or you can buy a custom offset shifter as others have done. For the speedo you need to use a conversion from the electric output back to your mechanical or switch to a electric 5" speedo. I havent done anything yet with my speedo. I had the driveshaft shortened and used a turbo 350 yoke. I found it to be a fairly easy swap and spent around 1200 for everything but I know prices have gone up on everything in the last 2-3 years since I made this change. I made my own rear mount out of scrap I had laying around but Ive read that the bolt in type used for automatic cars can be made to work if its relocated.

Actually you can use a T56 out of a 1990 something Camaro. We have an adapter plate that mounts the front of it and allow you to run a standard GM bell housing and mechanical linkage.:thumbs:



Richard
Tech Support

Who makes the offset shifter? From what I understand McLeod stopped making them. I am thinking of doing a T56 Swap in my 1980 auto. I plan on using the Wier adaptor but was just wondering what everyone was using to put the shifter back in the stock hole.

you can find them here :
http://www.hotrodlane.cc/Shifter/shifter.htm

Here is my Viper spec T56 with the bowtie crossmember
http://www.graemeinglis.com/albums/C.../inglis_52.jpg

And this is how we modified the shifter to put it in the stock location
http://www.graemeinglis.com/albums/C.../inglis_51.jpg
I bought mine new from D&D Performance http://www.ddperformance.com/ it came complete with adaptor plate etc.

Thanks,
I will give them a call when I jump off into this project.

[QUOTE=Street Shaker;1564118136][QUOTE=techsol;1564062687]Do you have a part number on that shifter??

Hi

Same here, GM Viper T56 with mechanical speedo connection from D&D.
And I also had to install the shifter the way you did, a bit further to the pax side again to make it centered into the original position.

The offset shifter is a bit too far fwd and to the left.

Rgds. Günther

I went with the D&D GM viper unit too. What crossmember is that? Is it a bolt in? Do I need to cut my stock crossmember out? Still trying to figure out the best way to mount it. Where is the mount located as compared to the stock mount. I know it is farther back. How far. Is it also lower? If so how much?

Did the bowtie crossmember need to modified?

Okay, can anyone tell me if the trans tunnel is the same for C2's and C3's? I've heard the T-56 is too big to fit in a C2 without butchery of the tunnel, something I am not willing to do. You C3 guys seem to get a T-56 to fit right in. I am about ready for a new trans but I am not convinced of the TKO conversion (seems to me to be only about a 50/50 success rate and it's expensive), the mythical 5-speed Muncie is still nowhere to be seen, and I don't think a T-5 will live very long behind a stout 383 or 427 smallblock.

Honestly, I'd try a richmond 5 or 6 speed with the overdrive. It should be a direct bolt it, but do your research. I have a T56 for right now (not in the car yet) because I got such a good deal on it, but the richmond tranny would have been my first preference. A new one will cost you in the neighborhood of $3200 - $3300 and is supposedly the same design tranny that they use in nascar. Not to mention, it is built in the good ol' US of A!:thumbs:

I did a TKO-600 on my own (no kit). It was very straight forward. Standard flywheel/bellhousing/etc. Did need a different spline on the clutch but that is off the shelf. Bought the trans from standard transmissions in Fort Worth. They put in their own offset shifter for me (cheaper than the McLeod style) and I bought the correct ($200+) yoke from them.

Made my own bracket (rather than butchering the crossmember). You can buy a similar bracket from the conversion folks if you don't want to weld up your own.

While not cheap, I expect it's less than a T56 with new components. Of course if you get a T56 used for cheap, then it's no comparison. But then when that used/abused trans built for 300hp frags behind your 500hp motor....

I am more than happy with the TKO and would do it again.

I have been getting ready to do the swap and have been trying to research what I will need. I found this and it explains alot. Alot of the vendors have helped also. Check out this article. I hope it helps. http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=98387

FRSTR90,

I've also considered A Richmond, but in truth I haven't formed an opinion one way or the other about them yet. Still looking into it.

Frank 833,
I'd likely end up with a kit as my fabricating skills are minimal at best - at least for now. It's not just a matter of will it fit, it's also a matter of vibration. It seems to me that there have been issues with a number of folks having vibration problems after the swap. I recall one guy who posted here who grew so frustrated with the whole thing, he put his Muncie back in. What concerns me is there does not seem to be any pattern to indicated if you will have problems or not. It just seems totally random. I certainly don't mean to impugn anyone's skills or honesty here, but you may have just gotten lucky. The way my luck seems to run with this car, I'll have problems.

After getting screwed around by SixSpeeds, Inc. in trying to get a T56 swap into my car I gave up on the project and have since sold my car. I did end up getting a full refund from them which I am still shocked that the monies were credited back to me after 4 months.

Here are the details on how to do a T56 swap and get the shifter to come up in the exact same location. I did a ton of research on this this all came together nicely after talking with countless others who have done the swap so theoretically all should work.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
In short we are going with the internal hydraulic setup vs. mechanical clutch as this will move the transmission 0.9" further forward compared to using an adapter plate and stock Muncie bellhousing to give us some additional clearance for the longer Viper tail shaft and also the Viper Shifter location is the easiest way this will work for our vettes. Here is a list of all the items I got....

1. SixSpeed, Inc Viper T56 with the following:
A. Front intermediate plate of a LS1 F-body
B. Internal hydraulic clutch setup (we need to use a GM hyrdaulic release bearing as this is what works with the bellhousing)
C. 2.66 1st gear with 0.5 6th gear overdrive
D. Stock Viper Offset Shifter

http://0174de9.netsolstores.com/

2. 98-02 Stock GM Camaro Firebird Trans Am Clutch Master/Slave Cylinder

3. Transmission slip yoke…this is the key part to getting it to fit in the tunnel (thanks Wesh) near the tailshaft running a smaller 1310 slip yoke CHRYSLER 727 AUTO & A833 MANUAL 30 Spline 1310 Series
http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/html/slip_yokes.html

4. Bellhousing that will bolt the Viper T56 to 1st Gen SBC RM-6023 - Small Block Chevy Bellhousing to T56 LS-1 Chevy Transmission http://www.quicktimeinc.com/products.html#chevy <http://www.quicktimeinc.com/products.html#chevy>
Depth = 5.555"
Transmission Bore Diameter = N/A
Clutch Diameter = 11" Flywheel = 168 tooth Weight = 17 lbs.
Full engine plate and grade 8 bolts included.
Works with factory Chevrolet hydraulic release bearing.
The lightest steel bellhousing available anywhere (Approx. 17 lbs).
The most accurate bellhousing available due to QuickTime's unique manufacturing processes.
The QuickTime cone is spun, not rolled or stamped.
This allows the QuickTime Bellhousing to be the most dimensionally stable bellhousing available.
Built from high grade steel — Work hardens to over 80,000 PSI strength.
Over 2 times the strength of any other steel bellhousing.
SFI Certified at 6.1.

5. 26 spline Spec Stage 2 Clutch

6. existing stock 11" flywheel can be re-used without any problems

7. Abbott Electric to Mechanical Speedo Converter $310 800-643-5973

8. Reverse lockout active and reverse lights hookup

9. Dragvette Driveshaft safety loop $149
http://www.dragvette.com/ <http://www.dragvette.com/>

10. Miscellaneious bolts, etc. bell bolts, bell to block bolts, shifter with bolts, slave bolts, slave cylinder for the LS1 with the throwout bearing, Clutch alignment tool

Yes, I've seen those reports as well. And agree they have cause some great pain and suffering.

I did take care that I positioned the tail to get the angles as proper as practical. Mine are not spot on (if I remeber correctly my tranny and diff are 1 degree out from ideal), but was the best I could do with sufficient clearance - it's tight between the yolk and ebrake hardware.

No noticable vibes on mine.

Of course that howl from the diff could soon be heard over the sidepipes... Dropped my diff off with Tracdogg2 this week.